Creativity block may cause loss of job, HELP!

[TheBigBoo]

Hello all, newbie here...but I'm no newbie to HTML, flash, etc. But I have a problem with "design..." I know all the ins and outs of Dreamweaver, Flash, etc. and can program the code used for awesome sites, but my boss recently found out that my intellect is way up in the clouds but creative side of my brain is six feet under...basically he wants me to come up with page layouts from scratch, and I have a very, VERY hard time doing that without copying someone else's layouts. It has come to the point that I will be replaced if I can't produce layouts on my own. He says that programming ability is great, but it doesn't matter if I can't "design" (layout) a site. Where should I start? I don't want to lose this job; I may never have this opportunity again!

[adam_uk]

there are so many layouts anyone can do

try inline frames and stick a graphic round it and get the links etc into the graphic

try and create a site in photoshop, i know it sounds stupid but if you can create the looks of a site in photo shop then you can break it up to fit with frames etc

[DirectPixel]

Originally posted by adam_uk
there are so many layouts anyone can do

try inline frames and stick a graphic round it and get the links etc into the graphic

try and create a site in photoshop, i know it sounds stupid but if you can create the looks of a site in photo shop then you can break it up to fit with frames etc lol, you just violated 2 design basics right there...

1. iFrames = bad
2. Frames = worse

But you are correct about the designing site in Photoshop part.:) Just create a 758x500 canvas, and let your imagination flow.:)

[filburt1]

iframes aren't incredibly evil, but frames are...

[energizze]

everyone thinks that Iframes and Frames are bad.

framesets are but iframes can be exremly useful sometimes. and can look good.

it's just because so many people have used iframes and used them badly to make a site that looks rubbish because of it.

but used correctly by someone who knows what they are doing and actually understands about site navigation: they are not evil.

[DirectPixel]

Actually, it's based more on fact that some browsers still have problems with iFrames.

All in all, if you can't effectively design a site that is both scalable and compatible, then you need to get back to the drawing board.

[energizze]

some browsers don't support CSS or javascript people use them on sites. anyone who uses a browser that doesn't support basic web site elements. can't expect to browse the web effectivly with it.

[filburt1]

You shouldn't rely on Javascript to do anything (says me who changed the User CP to require it :paranoid: ) IMHO :)

[energizze]

you can tell people not to use this and that us much as you like.

but the fact remains people want interesting web sites and in order to make interesting web sites they have to use things like flash, javascript.


because IE is the most common browser people have. web designers are using that as the industry standard instead of W3C so the only way other browsers like NS and Opera are going to stay useful is if they make it display in the same way as IE.

we don't necasarly like this but it's the way it's going/gone.

[DirectPixel]

Yes, what you have there is a valid argument.

However, it applies only to those little 'extra' eye-candy items, such as the 'Redirect' page on this forum with the animated arrow.

IE users see the animation, but users of other browsers don't. It does not hamper the user's ability to use the site.

If you're using Frames/iFrames, then a potential client could be getting error messages or blank pages -- not a good image for your site, if you ask me.

[energizze]

i don't think web design should stay in the dark ages just because 0.01% of web users are using really old browsers.

[DirectPixel]

Originally posted by energizze
i don't think web design should stay in the dark ages just because 0.01% of web users are using really old browsers. It's not staying in the dark ages. You can make perfectly good, if not better pages without the use of iFrames.

The challenge of web design is to make your sites look appealing while still keeping it usable.

[energizze]

i'm not just saying about iframes.


but if people never did anything new then because some people hadn't got a newer browser that would support it. then where would we be:

we'd still be using the first html version with no javascript, vbscript, css, dhtml ect....


and how ever clever you are. there's not much you can do with the first version of html in the way of creativity.

[adam_uk]

not sure what webdesigners are going to do now if Internet Explorer is going to be non existant!

i heard that ie6 is the last build of ie moving to that msn explorer **** :(

[filburt1]

MSN will still use IE as the rendering engine I bet.

[adam_uk]

Originally posted by filburt1
MSN will still use IE as the rendering engine I bet.

probably but i used that msn explorer and websites dont look as good init as they do it msn coz of the sidebar on it, it screws it up

[energizze]

Microsoft is the only company i can think of that manages to bully it's customers and still retain them.


would it be nice if they didn't have this monopoly over the computer world.

[adam_uk]

yeah i know what your saying, lindows or linux is the way forward

[energizze]

linux isn't the way forward tho.

because linux is free so they have no money to market themselves.

and if a viable competitor to microsoft was to come out it would have to be 100% compatible with microsoft otherwise people would never switch.

[adam_uk]

Originally posted by energizze
linux isn't the way forward tho.

because linux is free so they have no money to market themselves.

and if a viable competitor to microsoft was to come out it would have to be 100% compatible with microsoft otherwise people would never switch.

welcome to the world of lindows my freind


its free! its linux! its competing with microsoft! and it has support for microsfot products!!!www.lindows.com

[filburt1]

Lindows is crap, it's just Linux with Wine which is a horrible emulator. IIRC though VMware works on Linux and VMware is very, very nice. Slow, of course, but nice.

Linux will still reign king compared to Windows in the web server environment because it's free and has proven itself, but it has a very long way to go before it can be mainstream for desktops.

[DirectPixel]

yep, filburt said it all.:)

1. WINE/Lindows aren't good emulators for Win32
2. Linux is King on server platforms
3. Linux is gaining enterprise shares as a very stable and dynamic platform for coding.
4. Desktop Linux isn't that far away -- many productivity applications already have Linux equivalents (StarOffice, Gaim, etc.)

And statistically, Linux IS one of Microsoft's main OS competitors, with more market share than Apple.:)

[filburt1]

Only because Apple OSes only run on Apple hardware. If I could, I'd buy OS X for PC without hesitation over Windows.

[DirectPixel]

If that could happen, wouldn't you think almost everybody would do that?

Who doesn't want Unix with cool Aqua colors?;)

[digitalchaos]

Hello thebigboo. There are many sites which can be found on the Internet that relate graphic arts/design to webpage layout. I have found that reading the information on these pages makes it significantly easier to create a layout, by settings a framework to follow. Check places like webmonkey and cNet for information about page layout, there is always a wealth of it there. Next, like the others said just use your imagination to create a 'picture' of your page in Adobe or PaintShopPro. Its much easier to visualize when you are putting it in plain view. Then take this picture and use your knowledge of web programming to turn it into a nice design. One trick that sometimes works for me and several others I have spoken with is to create a design when you are tired! Its a funny principle, but you are almost always more creative when tired, because the mathematical side of your brain subsides. One last thing, do what you have already mentioned and look at others' designs! Look at lots of designs, specifically ones that have won awards and other prestigious recognition for their layout of content. Also look at highly successful commercial websites and see what they do. Sometimes very simple websites can be significantly better than visually complex ones, because they are more functional! I hope this helps you at least to some extent, probably the two most valuable assets I have mentioned are looking at other layouts for ideas and searching for information on the web about graphical page layout. Goodluck!

[energizze]

Originally posted by filburt1
Only because Apple OSes only run on Apple hardware. If I could, I'd buy OS X for PC without hesitation over Windows.


same here,

If i could install the Mac OS on my machine i would. But i always prefer to build my computer than buy one that someone else has built.

[energizze]

is www.lindows.com part of apple or did they just knick apples old site style.

apple have changed it now, but www.lindows.com is basicly the same as the old apple site in style.

[DirectPixel]

Originally posted by energizze
is www.lindows.com part of apple or did they just knick apples old site style.

apple have changed it now, but www.lindows.com is basicly the same as the old apple site in style. No, it's not part of Apple.

The style is very semiliar, abut apple has no claim to it since the gradients for the aqua style is done completely differently.

[filburt1]

That is extraordinarily lame of them, like all those sites that rip MSN's tabs...

[DirectPixel]

Originally posted by filburt1
That is extraordinarily lame of them, like all those sites that rip MSN's tabs... Want sites that look alike?

http://www.paypal.com
http://www.amazon.com
http://www.barnesandnoble.com

It works.:)

[filburt1]

Yeah but the gradients are virtually identical...

[jayacosta]

I agree that the Windows Empire has to go... but they have left behind some relics of interest like the idea of aesthetics having a place in the desktop environment.
Art and aesthetics do have a place on the web, but when it comes at the expense of accessibility (ie. too many extra's on your site) you have to re-evaluate your objectives.

Jay

[Scarab]

I'll give you the God's honest truth.

The best way to "jump start" your imagination into coming up with your own designs, is to start looking at things differently.

Look at how things are made, and how other's have taken those designs and altered them slightly to reflect their own personality. There are a number of things you can use to develop this skill.

Read automotive magazines, visit a tattoo parlor, watch cartoons and sci-fi movies, but don't do this for the content, do it to see what the eye-candy is, and just how subtle some of it is.

Design isn't really hard, but it is unique. When something tastes like apple, it doesn't have to BE an apple, but as long as it's close, your brain says it's an apple. What comes next, is a combination of imagination and fact. Color, shape, texture, shading, lighting are all aspects of what makes any design great. Finding ways to get a person to crawl into a website and explore it is the key.

A Model who's website is titled "Dangerous Curves Ahead" can use elements like the road sign, a winding road, or the shapes of the sign and the road to pull your mind into the design. The colors also help. Muted colors like a slate blue along with a bold color like neon green or brilliant red on a white background can also grab the attention of the viewer, and let's face it, if you can't grab their attention, they aren't going to stay, which makes the client an unhappy individual. You have 10-20 seconds to make an impression. If you can't do it, they're gone, and as most of the population uses search engines, you're just another selection at that point, unless you make an impact.

Hope this helps.