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  1. #1
    Senior Member Dorky's Avatar
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    ok. well most of you on here have a skill. Hosting companies do not utilize skill, rather CMS's. the work in mass production of web presence. custom design is just that, custom. how can you call it custom when built with a limited predefined number of combinations. no dif images do not constitute custom in my eyes. using CMS's and competeing for the bottom dollar will take all the fun, drive, and money out of the design industry that i am so proudly persuing at full throttle. thats my opinion. what does a farari cost? what does a kia cost? i would not work at a kia lot thanks. now implementing a custom CMS for a client, well now thats design. am i a know it all, not yet. give me time.

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  3. #2
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    I also dislike the CMS -- mostly because they don't manage content. Most aren't even using the basic functions of the CMS, nor do they inform clients, train contributors, or develop a content management strategy. (Which could then be billed for, if they had a drop of salesmanship in their bodies)

    In that regard, the CMS is like a muscle car put up on cinder blocks in the front yard. Most are being used just because they separate content editing from markup and structure.

    The CMS is used like a play pen to babysit clients.

    It's criminal that the CMS potential was devalued to adding an editor window. But I disagree with the hand made car/craftsmanship analogy. Most developers are making hand-made Yugos -- not a Lamborghini.

    Either that or a clown car or pageant float ...but you'd need Flash for that.

    There simply aren't many layout grids, with the original idea largely a usability problem. Where's the craftsmanship in selecting one generic stock photo from another similar one? Where's the craftsmanship in applying this week's PhotoShop fad?

    Most "design" firms ...

    ...Never take an original photo of the client's product or of employees
    ...Don't consider writing part of their job
    ...Can't successfully brand anything but Web 2.0, or Adobe (Consequently most sites cause users to want to buy Flash or PhotoShop ...not the client's product)
    ...Couldn't develop a strategy, simply because they can't distinguish a tactic from a strategy (Consequently most sites are developed around excuses, not objectives)
    ....Use words like interface design and usability without much idea -- other than their own opinion -- what those words mean
    ...Have never developed an infographic about the client value proposition
    ...Don't conduct user testing, apply usability techniques, or know much about interaction design (The few who do know what Fitts' law is couldn't implement it in CSS to save their very lives)
    ...Develop sites in willful ignorance of real marketing strategy, and no the uber-cool Flash page shouting "look at me" like a sugared-up four-year-old isn't marketing.

    A chimpanzee or capuchin has no concept of craftsmanship -- and most design firms are no more than code monkeys. Clever antics. Perhaps cute. Not craftsmen.

    That they may grasp a tool is not to be mistaken for any but the most superficial understanding of tool use.

    There are plenty of reasons to criticize the CMS. That it would compromise the craftsmanship of design firms is not one of them. They were racing for the bottom long before the CMS gave them an express lane. Don't even get me started on hosting companies, which drag the term code monkey down to new lows.

    Related:

    Primate Programming
    is dedicated to the advancement and gainful employment of hominids and monkeys within the United States information technology sector and globally. Truth in advertising.

    Huhcorp is a tribute to what code monkeys can produce, but it's not exactly what you'd call craftsmanship.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Dorky's Avatar
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    while i think fitt's is a bit much as far as ergonomic design goes i love the post and the huh site was fkn sweet. and i think i was called a code monkey but dude that post is the pinnacle of awesomeness.

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  5. #4
    Senior Member aeroweb99's Avatar
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    Thanks DC, I needed a good laugh, (huhcorp). The only thing missing is a picture of a girl on the phone for the contact page. How did you stumble across that site anyway? The PPI is good too.

  6. #5
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    How did you stumble across that site anyway?
    I've been writing about this on my site since 2002. I stumbled on that site when it was making fun of the previous Web 1.0 ...they've since changed and updated the site for 2.0.

    Often, when you're talking about genuine information, you have to couch the information in humor to be more effective. Check out one of 37signals earliest efforts, eNormicon. I probably found huhcorp looking for eNormicon when doing the blurb.

    So, I did an entry about parody and information design. One thing which can get you in trouble is calling out a competitor by name. So Alaska Airlines did Skyhigh Airlines, which went viral.

    BTW, hosting companies would be an ideal target for parody. And the field is wide open.

    There is an old philosophical gedanken which postulates a million monkeys typing on a like number of typewriters will eventually type Shakespeare's works. The old joke is the internet proves this postulate false. Text. Code. Same difference.

    The only thing missing is a picture of a girl on the phone for the contact page.
    You're overlooking the possibilities of duhcorp.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorky
    ok. well most of you on here have a skill. Hosting companies do not utilize skill, rather CMS's. the work in mass production of web presence. custom design is just that, custom. how can you call it custom when built with a limited predefined number of combinations. no dif images do not constitute custom in my eyes. using CMS's and competeing for the bottom dollar will take all the fun, drive, and money out of the design industry that i am so proudly persuing at full throttle. thats my opinion. what does a farari cost? what does a kia cost? i would not work at a kia lot thanks. now implementing a custom CMS for a client, well now thats design. am i a know it all, not yet. give me time.
    you don't have a gripe against CMS then. you have a gripe against CMS templates that just have images and colors swapped. you can completely dissect code from Drupal, for example, and make it COMPLETELY custom. your reason for not liking CMS doesn't really make sense. it's a great tool for creating a website that can be updated and managed easily by the client.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Dorky's Avatar
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    you said it all. "by the client".

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  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorky
    you said it all. "by the client".
    ...huh?

  10. #9
    WDF Staff Wired's Avatar
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    It means you can't charge a small store $1000 per page because they simply don't have the money, but on the other hand it's possible to charge that to a multi-national business... assuming the page is WORTH that much of course!
    The Rules
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  11. #10
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    assuming the page is WORTH that much of course!

    Let's add to this topic what Content Management Systems -- none -- offer:

    -- An excellent content management tool is the planogram
    -- A CSS file for machine rendering of content is not a style guide for content providers
    -- Program management through content like functional requirements and postmortem tools are unknown. Heck, this thread could have gone on for thirty pages without anyone bringing up the Plog.

    The standard CMS implementation is not well suited, as installed, for any of this. Yet it takes about five minutes of thought and one minute with Google to find off-the-shelf open source additions to do most of what I'm talking about.

    ....who, exactly, is doing it. Practically nobody. That's why you criticize the CMS.

    A filing drawer for content storage nobody looks at is not an active tool of content management.

    Customize Drupal for THAT. Go in as admin and, say, turn on the planogram module. Go ahead and try. Point is, you and I both know that right now you couldn't even imagine how to figure out what to code provided you were going to code it from scratch.

    And the reason it isn't in Drupal is 1) It's not easy to code. CMS apps don't have survey modules because surveys online are accurate or informative, they have them because online surveys are (seemingly) straightforward to code. 2) It's not generic enough. Ecommerce is a huge chunk of the web -- but still not lowest common denominator generic for the CMS.

    Trouble is, a little something for just about everyone means almost nothing for any specific subgroup with real needs. Which is the final criticism, it's mostly for developers to provide a playpen for clients (and I stress for developers). It's not for clients.

    Right now designers don't see the need to interact with client content, don't write for clients, and pretty much don't see content management as a required skill. And out of that stupendous ignorance of content and its management comes the CMS.

    Leave it to technologists to take three perfectly good words like content and management and system and make their appearance next to each other meaningless.

    The CMS is as ignorant of management issues as Frontpage was of markup. I wait for the CMS to gain its rightful reputation as Frontpage for content management. All nice and seemingly easy on the surface -- hey, an editor window ...sweet. Oblivious to the mess created underneath under the assumption what you don't see can't hurt you.

    And don't embarrass yourself writing your CMS validates, that's completely missing the point. The very notion of confusing some simple parsing with validation by machine is an atrocity.


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