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View Poll Results: If you had to choose between WordPress and Joomla, which would you choose?

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  • WordPress

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  • Joomla

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Thread: CMS Advice - WordPress or Joomla

  1. #1
    Junior Member MarketingGirl's Avatar
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    Lightbulb CMS Advice - WordPress or Joomla

    Hello All!

    I need some third-party input here. We are in the midst of preparing for a website overhaul. Our site is fairly large, consumer-oriented site, though we don't sell direct to consumers. We sell to distribution (B2B). That said, we have a dealer locator and a dealer portal for info on our site. Our site was designed 7 years ago in Kentico and we are aiming to get on to a more user-friendly platform that we can manage ourselves. (mostly)

    So... in the process of gathering some info, we had a Joomla presentation. I have to admit that the demo was great and that the platform offers management for user groups with multi-layer permissions. The content management and categorization seems decent. That said... several developers bidding the job in WordPress (our original platform request) have stated that Joomla isn't regularly supported and that we should stay away from that platform. These comments are coming from developers that used to support and design in Joomla and no longer do so. We have been told that the same functionality we liked in Joomla can be built into WordPress.

    I've been hunting all over the internet for fair, unbiased input on Joomla. There seem to be lots of folks who still support it and so many who have left it. The W3Techs site was useful to see the decline of marketshare within the CMS segment... 12% down to 7% since 2010... which falls inline with folks (developers) moving away from it. There are also huge increases in WordPress use... which I also understand includes all the mom and pop bloggers as well as custom sites for corporations all lumped together.

    While I don't want to cause a big debate of one CMS over the other... I would like some honest feedback about both. WordPress obviously has greater support in developers and overall users... but is there still validity to Joomla? How secure is the Joomla platform overall? Is it susceptible to risk any more or less than WordPress? Does the fact that they don't update their platform as often pose a problem or risk overall? If our site was developed in WordPress using mostly the core functionality (no themes and few plug-ins)... does that help? Is SEO on both decent and easily managed?

    I'd appreciate ANY and ALL feedback you can provide, as I am honestly stuck trying to figure this all out... and I don't have time to go earn a 3rd college degree! Heh. Thank you for your time!

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  3. #2
    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
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    You're going to end up in that debate, whether you like it or not. I'm going to try and break down some terms...not because I'm trying to insult your intelligence as you've posed a very intelligent question, but simply because I have no way to know what your level of tech knowledge is. Y

    Here's the thing that I suspect that no one has addressed (likely because no one would have the knowledge, the ability, or the "bravery" to address)...Kentico is an ASP.net (the programming language) CMS and from what I know of it typically uses MS-SQL (the database) as a backend, whereas both WP and Joomla utilize PHP with MySQL as backends. What I would be concerned about personally is migration i.e. getting the data that you have from Kentico to either platform. This typically isn't an easy process, and I suspect would be made more difficult by the Kentico CMS itself...I'm one of the few ASP.net developers on here and probably the most likely source of information on Kentico based on experienced, and I have none. You may find yourself using a service such as the one below to get your data moved over (this is not an endorsement of the service...just an example of something you might need):

    https://cms2cms.com/cms/supported-cm...mla-migration/

    Bear in mind that the service above offers "limited support"...whatever that means. If your site is simple, you'll probably be fine (although in that case, simply copy/pasting into the new CMS is likely less expensive and more effective). But at any rate, it's a consideration, and you'll want to ask whatever developers you work with how they're going to deal with the Kentico migration.

    As far as Wordpress vs. Joomla is concerned, my first and foremost concern is website security. I've worked on websites for almost 18 years now, and out of all the sites I've worked on, five have been hacked. Four of them have been WP sites. While they have gotten better with their security over the last couple of years and the automatic updates are a major benefit, I still have significant doubts as it pertains to their security and that of the various plugins (which doesn't seem to be as much of an issue here). I've used Joomla for a few sites with clients and experienced no issues. So from that standpoint, I'd go with Joomla.

    The "community" isn't something I consider to be a major factor either way. Yes, there are many more WP sites than Joomla sites out there and many more WP "developers" than Joomla developers. However, this is where quality also enters into the equation as well as the interpretation of the word "developer". "Developer" is a term in the web industry that has been highly subject over the last several years to a remarkable degree of linguistic gymnastics. Take for example "WordPress and front-end developer". Sounds impressive, right? Lots of those out there. Here's the thing: what that means is that they can customize an existing WordPress theme and they might in rare cases be able to create one from scratch. That's where their "front end developer" skills (translation: HTML, CSS. and maybe JavaScript) come into play. And if that's all you need someone to do...design something that looks nice and uses the WordPress CMS...then that's fine. But you're already going to have issues with your existing CMS, as I mentioned above, so you're going to need some other skills...as in "developer" skills in all likelihood. This is where the server-side programming comes into play. You'll need someone that knows PHP and ideally knows ASP,net as well. There are people who know both, but it's hard to find someone who knows both well enough to work back and forth between them in that "OMG you're a NINJA" sort of way. I'm like that with .NET, but I'm a PHP hack myself...I can use it, but I don't like it and there are people who could code circles around me in PHP (not so much .NET).

    So why don't I consider "community" to be a factor, and what does development skill have to do with it? Most developers of the NINJA grade use the "community" the way you'd break the glass to get at a fire extinguisher...in case of emergency, and very rarely does that emergency arise. If they're skilled in one or the other CMS and they're legitimate developers, they'll probably have their own extensions/plugins and will be the type to plunge into a difficult project headfirst. They may have either built their own CMS themselves or rebuilt an existing one from the ground up. In other words, borderline masochists.

    You won't "gain an SEO boost" from using either CMS, but you can certainly negatively affect your SEO experience and by extension your user experience. Let me give you an example of something very few people know about, and the majority of WP "developers" pay almost no attention to (not sure about Joomla in this case). The example below is of a fairly widely used WordPress theme, and no I'm not recommending it either (among other issues, it has an undiagnosed menu bug that has been there for years and no one has dealt with it):

    https://developers.google.com/speed/...w%2Fperdido%2F

    The link to the theme is in the insight.

    You'll see pretty low PageSpeed scores, and the reason is rather simple: it's bloated. It's very, very, very bloated. The user has to download several MB worth of CSS, JavaScript, and image files just to view a page. You get people on cell phones or with suboptimal Internet connections (low-broadband), they're not going to wait. This is where SEO and the user experience collide and you'll need to be aware of this.

    The "tl;dr" point I'm trying to make is that there is an argument for one CMS over the other (Joomla over WP), but your bigger issue is finding the right developer(s) to do what you need done.
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  4. #3
    Junior Member MarketingGirl's Avatar
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    THANK YOU for the insightful response! I truly appreciate it. I joined THREE forums seeking out any kind of input. After 400+ views on the first forum with zero response, I was deflated. I made a comment to my own post and did get a response... but there was no input to the original post. Not only do I appreciate you taking the time to type an answer... but you really tried to provide valuable input... MUCH appreciated!

    You are correct... some of this process has taken me through the "big unknown pond" of website development. I am aware that we are on ASP.net and switching to a PHP platform, and that will require things like different hosting servers, etc. I appreciate your thought process and identifying a potential sticky spot for the migration of information from one CMS to the other. I will address that issue with both remaining candidates.

    I also appreciate your honest input on the overall WP vs. Joomla situation. I have to admit that not being in the web development field, and trying to assess this all at once, has been an interesting process. As stated before, we've had several recommendations not to go with Joomla, and it is nice to see a vote (apart from the Joomla developer) for the Joomla camp.

    As far as either developer being a NINJA of sorts... well... I probably won't be able to tell either way. I do know that the WP folks would develop everything custom. They prefer to code using the WP core functionality and stay away from themes altogether. We would probably require a plugin (or three)... but the goal with plug-ins was to keep those to a bare minimum. The thing I liked about that proposal is that it would be all custom for us... whether that's good or bad I don't know. I suspect the Joomla developer would likely essentially clone the back end of an existing site he used in our demo (with some tweaks I am sure), and then create a new front end for the public. (hopefully... I'm using these terms correctly) I have mixed feelings about that process... but a working site with the functionality that demo site had would be so much better for us than our current site at this point.

    Duly noted on the page speed and SEO. Thank you for the link to PageSpeed... neat tool! Reminds me of speedtest.net... but different.
    Last edited by MarketingGirl; May 11th, 2017 at 01:48 PM.

  5. #4
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    The others here are much more expert than I am but I will throw out my two cents worth anyway.

    I don't know that I would agree that Joomla is not regularly supported but I do believe there is more support for WordPress. Right now about 27% of the web sites on the internet are running WordPress. Both Joomla and WordPress have their advantages. Security seems decent for both but I would probably give Joomla the edge on that part however I think whichever you chose it won't likely be an issue.

    Right now I have converted 3 of my 8 sites to WordPress and have one site I maintain that was created by someone else in Joomla. The plus I would see for WordPress is it is far easier for you to make updates than Joomla. To be honest I hate Joomla and find WordPress much more intuitive when it comes to updating. My vote would be for WordPress.
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  6. #5
    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarketingGirl View Post
    THANK YOU for the insightful response! I truly appreciate it. I joined THREE forums seeking out any kind of input. After 400+ views on the first forum with zero response, I was deflated. I made a comment to my own post and did get a response... but there was no input to the original post. Not only do I appreciate you taking the time to type an answer... but you really tried to provide valuable input... MUCH appreciated!

    You are correct... some of this process has taken me through the "big unknown pond" of website development. I am aware that we are on ASP.net and switching to a PHP platform, and that will require things like different hosting servers, etc. I appreciate your thought process and identifying a potential sticky spot for the migration of information from one CMS to the other. I will address that issue with both remaining candidates.

    I also appreciate your honest input on the overall WP vs. Joomla situation. I have to admit that not being in the web development field, and trying to assess this all at once, has been an interesting process. As stated before, we've had several recommendations not to go with Joomla, and it is nice to see a vote (apart from the Joomla developer) for the Joomla camp.

    As far as either developer being a NINJA of sorts... well... I probably won't be able to tell either way. I do know that the WP folks would develop everything custom. They prefer to code using the WP core functionality and stay away from themes altogether. We would probably require a plugin (or three)... but the goal with plug-ins was to keep those to a bare minimum. The thing I liked about that proposal is that it would be all custom for us... whether that's good or bad I don't know. I suspect the Joomla developer would likely essentially clone the back end of an existing site he used in our demo (with some tweaks I am sure), and then create a new front end for the public. (hopefully... I'm using these terms correctly) I have mixed feelings about that process... but a working site with the functionality that demo site had would be so much better for us than our current site at this point.

    Duly noted on the page speed and SEO. Thank you for the link to PageSpeed... neat tool! Reminds me of speedtest.net... but different.
    You're welcome!

    The "doing everything custom" aspect is promising, but it would depend on who the developers were, their skills, and how they could articulate them.

    The cloning of your existing site may very well happen with the Joomla developer. Depending on the functionality of your site, someone may elect to run a scraper to extract the content and then put it into a new database. A skilled developer can scrape most sites accurately and deal with any oddities that may arise (unclosed tags, images that don't exist, etc.) in a matter of hours. That doesn't necessarily make it a bad approach, either. I've done that in certain circumstances (always with permission, and not for a Joomla site because again I'm a .NET guy).

    If you have the links to the websites for each company/developer, feel free to post them. If you're feeling skittish about that, you may want to use a link shortener such as www.bit.ly to mask them.
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  7. #6
    Junior Member MarketingGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGAME1264 View Post
    You're welcome!

    The "doing everything custom" aspect is promising, but it would depend on who the developers were, their skills, and how they could articulate them.

    The cloning of your existing site may very well happen with the Joomla developer. Depending on the functionality of your site, someone may elect to run a scraper to extract the content and then put it into a new database. A skilled developer can scrape most sites accurately and deal with any oddities that may arise (unclosed tags, images that don't exist, etc.) in a matter of hours. That doesn't necessarily make it a bad approach, either. I've done that in certain circumstances (always with permission, and not for a Joomla site because again I'm a .NET guy).

    If you have the links to the websites for each company/developer, feel free to post them. If you're feeling skittish about that, you may want to use a link shortener such as www.bit.ly to mask them.
    Yes... I liked the idea of not using themes and easy templates to try and modify into something "different" for a couple of reasons... 1) we'd have something uniquely ours, and 2) we wouldn't open up the door to any potential security issue via a theme. (...if that risk is really relevant or statistically an issue.)

    So... here is the link to the firm who has bid to complete the project in WP as all custom:
    http://bit.ly/2q8PdI7]

    Here is the link to the firm who has bid to complete the project in Joomla:
    http://bit.ly/2qZLZrM]

    Here is a link to our current site if you're curious.
    http://bit.ly/2q8KF4n]

    The WP guys would be at the top of our budget... slightly over once the custom areas (dealer portal behind the scenes, etc.) were developed... but we'd be on WP.

    The Joomla guy has promised everything in Joomla and would be able to launch a mobile app too... and stay within our budget. (lots of bells and whistles... which is appealing... but trying not to fall for the "if it's too good to be true" trap)

    To clarify... the Joomla guy wouldn't clone our existing site... I think he'd clone the back end of this site (link below) that he developed for another company in our overall industry. He'd duplicate some behind the scenes functionality.
    http://bit.ly/2pEsTn1

    At least you can sort of see the project as a whole. We are DYING for a responsive design site as our current site has very limited mobile device compatibility. We have a separate, very basic mobile site and the whole non-mobile-friendly thing is super frustrating when you want to link to things on the full site in emails. GAH. Being able to manage multi-level user permissions will be really helpful down the road with our dealers, rep firms that rep our products, etc.
    Last edited by MarketingGirl; May 11th, 2017 at 08:08 PM.

  8. #7
    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
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    The Joomla! firm seems to have a problem with Canadians.
    403: Access Forbidden
    Your location (CA) has been blacklisted.
    Fortunately, since I have a US server that I can RDP into, I can get around that. Something to bear in mind with them...and this is known as "going too far down the rabbit hole".

    Web Design Services Atlanta | Online Marketing and SEO in Mcdonough GA - System X Designs
    Home - Pool Store Websites

    Notice the phone number and layout. Same "company" (if you want to call it a company). Now, keep that second link open and add these two to the mixture:

    Home - Landi Pools & Games
    Home - Hillside Swimming Pool - Greeley, Colorado

    Basically, these guys just use templates and "build" your site based on one of the templates they select. The only thing I'm not certain of is whether those are stock templates from Joomla, purchased templates from somewhere else, or just a set they created themselves...but that's really an academic question. The important thing is that they like to do some serious mass production in an industry that should try to avoid it where/when possible.

    Now...this is where the conversation is about to take a really awkward turn, and you're probably not going to like me very much for what I'm about to do to you (something for which I do apologize in advance). The WP developers that don't use themes and only rely on WP's "core functionality" don't exactly practice what they preach on their own site.

    The7 ? The Most Customizable Theme on the Market! <-- this is the theme they use, and while they have "customized" it, they probably didn't do it with code. From the theme page.
    The7 is THE theme that will help you


    creating pro-grade sites without ever touching a code.
    There is no valid reason for any "web designer" or "web design firm" to use a stock theme, especially a WYSIWYG stock theme. You're supposed to show off your creative side if you're a designer/design firm (I'm a developer, by the way, so I'm a different beast). These guys don't do that.

    Sadly, I probably just put you right back to square one, assuming this is enough to run from both firms. Hopefully, at least the WP guys have some rational explanation for what they did, although I doubt it.
    If I've helped you out in any way, please pay it forward. My wife and I are walking for Autism Speaks. Please donate, and thanks.

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  9. #8
    Junior Member MarketingGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGAME1264 View Post
    The Joomla! firm seems to have a problem with Canadians.

    Fortunately, since I have a US server that I can RDP into, I can get around that. Something to bear in mind with them...and this is known as "going too far down the rabbit hole".

    Web Design Services Atlanta | Online Marketing and SEO in Mcdonough GA - System X Designs
    Home - Pool Store Websites

    Notice the phone number and layout. Same "company" (if you want to call it a company). Now, keep that second link open and add these two to the mixture:

    Home - Landi Pools & Games
    Home - Hillside Swimming Pool - Greeley, Colorado

    Basically, these guys just use templates and "build" your site based on one of the templates they select. The only thing I'm not certain of is whether those are stock templates from Joomla, purchased templates from somewhere else, or just a set they created themselves...but that's really an academic question. The important thing is that they like to do some serious mass production in an industry that should try to avoid it where/when possible.

    Now...this is where the conversation is about to take a really awkward turn, and you're probably not going to like me very much for what I'm about to do to you (something for which I do apologize in advance). The WP developers that don't use themes and only rely on WP's "core functionality" don't exactly practice what they preach on their own site.

    The7 ? The Most Customizable Theme on the Market! <-- this is the theme they use, and while they have "customized" it, they probably didn't do it with code. From the theme page.

    There is no valid reason for any "web designer" or "web design firm" to use a stock theme, especially a WYSIWYG stock theme. You're supposed to show off your creative side if you're a designer/design firm (I'm a developer, by the way, so I'm a different beast). These guys don't do that.

    Sadly, I probably just put you right back to square one, assuming this is enough to run from both firms. Hopefully, at least the WP guys have some rational explanation for what they did, although I doubt it.
    So much for keeping all the links in bit.ly format! HA!

    We'll have to address the Canadian issue as we DO have Canadian customers! Yikes. I agree with you... their sites look very cookie cutter when compared to one another. If this were my choice alone... I'd likely go with the WP folks because I think the look and user experience of our site would be far better in the end. That said... the team that has to use the back-end of the site was super impressed with the Joomla demo. The guy pulled up the Maytronics (US) site and the management info is so similar to what we want to achieve. It was all right there.

    The WP team just showed our team around the back-end of their corporatre WP site... and it's pretty basic. The team really needed to see something with user permissions, file management, etc. I believe in that WP demo, the WP folks said they threw something together fairly quickly with that site... but you're right... it probably should showcase more of their abilities. My gut says that WP folks can deliver exactly what we want... but our team needs to see it to understand it.

    Put a HOT deadline into this mix and we're likely going to go down a path to satisfy the team and to get the job done on time... but that maybe won't be our best decision.
    Last edited by MarketingGirl; May 12th, 2017 at 10:43 AM.

  10. #9
    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
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    Actually, the Canadian issue is on the Joomla developer's site. You're good for now. I was able to see the existing Kentico site.
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  11. #10
    Junior Member MarketingGirl's Avatar
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    Yes... I understood you correctly and have since addressed that potential international issue with that particular developer. Apparently, he blocks IP addresses in foreign countries (I think sometimes specifically and others times as a blanket block, if you will) to help protect against malicious attack. He claims we can unblock any countries we need.

    I really appreciate all of the thought and input you wrote on my behalf. I can't express enough how it did help bring some cautions to light and things for us to look for as we move forward.
    TheGAME1264 likes this.


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