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  1. #1
    Senior Member Shani's Avatar
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    Finally found a way to watch the cup games at work...

    www.espn360.com.

    Today is Australia/Italy and Switzerland/Ukraine... would be interesting to see how Portugal stands up to England after losing a couple players to red cards in yesterday's record-breaking referee. Any ways, hope all enjoy!
    Shani

    I have an eye for detail like you'd never believe.

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  3. #2
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    God that was the dirtiest game of World Cup soccer I've seen in my life... It's a good thing the Netherlands didn't score; they didn't deserve to keep on...

  4. #3
    Senior Member rosland's Avatar
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    The judge should take some of the blame too!

    He should have been more pro-active, by clearly stating that "that's it, now it's zero tolerance for dirty tricks and temper outburst. Next ugly thing I see is an immediate Red Card!"

    Instead, he was letting things develope, and came in flashing yellow cards as a "please don't do that, it's not acceptable I think", after the situations had escalated out of control.

    A judge has to make a stand at some point, and establish and use his authority. Players tends to cool down a notch, when faced with an authoritative judge like the retired bald headed ex-judge (from Italy?), that oozed authority, and looked like a bad *** drill sergant.

    The judge "owns" the game. He's the one who can decide in what direction the game should go, what the acceptable path is, and when to put his foot down and send both teams to the lockers (as the ultimate extreme (which he can do, if nothing else works)).

    He should have been more visible earlier, and when things started to escalate, he should have taken charge in a burst of authority and zero-tolerance style!
    S. Rosland

  5. #4
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    You're definitely right, and the ref should take some of the blame, but I was really angry at the players. I happen to really like the fact that soccer is a game where, even if there is the occasional dive or acting or vicious tackle, at the end of the day, the players respect each other. By consequence, to me, that game was the players showing disrespect for each other, for the ref, and for the sport. And I ain't havin' NOBODY disrespectin' THIS sport. :-P

    EDIT: Also, yeah, the bald ref? Super-coolness to the extreme. I loved that guy. Saw him in two World Cups and he was totally my favorite ref. And I suppose it's odd that I had a favorite ref. Anyway, yeah, he rocked.

  6. #5
    Senior Member rosland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfiend
    ...but I was really angry at the players. I happen to really like the fact that soccer is a game where, even if there is the occasional dive or acting or vicious tackle, at the end of the day, the players respect each other.
    I totally agree. I didn't mean to blame it all on the ref, I just feel he should be partially blamed for not stopping it from escalating, and his role hadn't been mentioned in the above posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfiend
    By consequence, to me, that game was the players showing disrespect for each other, for the ref, and for the sport. And I ain't havin' NOBODY disrespectin' THIS sport. :-P.
    There's a lot of emotions involved at this level.
    It's the World Cup, and everybody has fought extremely hard just to qualify for the group play!

    To qualify for the cup, is a tremendous achievement, and they're closely followed by their respective nations.
    In a national 'bonding/uniting' sense, it's as close as you get to an all out war!
    There's a tremendous pressure on the players.
    (remember the Coloumbian player who was shot when returning home, as a scapegoat for their loss in the (I believe) quarter finals.

    Under extreme pressure, tempers flare and sanity evaportes.
    What we percieve as details, are interpreted as almost existential questions, by the players on the field.
    Players we normally percieve as polite and collected, buckle under the pressure and go schizo.

    The judges are there, to prevent extreme dedication from erupting into pure violence and anarchy, in addition to monitoring the game.
    The players themselves (all professionals), should of course also have it in them to cope with the pressure, and act decently.
    S. Rosland

  7. #6
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    Everything you said is definitely true. All I'm saying is that I hold soccer players to higher standards than those of other sports. And, generally, they hold quite well to those standards. Yesterday's game was one where that wasn't the case, which upset me a little. But at the end of the day, yeah, you're right, tempers do flare sometimes, and it's the referee's job to keep them in check.

    The bald dude's name is Pierluigi Collina, btw :-)

  8. #7
    Senior Member Shani's Avatar
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    Since we're talking about the Netherlands-Portugal match-up, I will put my two cents in.

    A yellow-card carrying Portugese player committed a blatant yellow-card offense that was not called. A Dutch player got kicked square in the chest in the box, nothing was called. The captain of the Portugese team head-butted a Dutch player who is half a foot taller than him while play is paused, this is an automatic red card, and NOTHING WAS CALLED!

    All of those incidents occurred in the earlier part of the game (a couple even in the first half). In fact, the Dutch player who received the head butt was the first person from his team to get red carded, and due to an ACCIDENTAL elbow to the face.

    If you're a player, especially at this level, and the referee is not PROTECTING you, of course you are going to retaliate.

    To a point you can say, shame on you for the unsportsman like behavior. But on the other hand, if you don't fight back, you're going to get beat down. At that point the fouls become more blantant, and the ref looks more like a dealer at a card table.

    My thought is they should have some method of substituting refs in the case where it's clearly evident at the end of 45 min that the guy has no control.
    Shani

    I have an eye for detail like you'd never believe.

  9. #8
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    A few things do bear mentioning; namely, that Figo got yellow-carded for his head-butt -- granted, it was a red card offense, but the ref also wasn't looking. While that call wasn't great, it also wasn't the worst one of the game. Secondly, yes, someone got kicked in the chest in the box, but let's not forget that what happened to Cristiano Ronaldo also looked remarkably close to a red card offense, as well. I'm also not *entirely* sure that elbow was accidental, considering how shortly after the head-butt it happened.

    Let's not try and make it out to seem like the Portuguese were the only ones messing up at first, because they weren't. Both teams were on fire -- in the not-so-good sense -- from the beginning, and the second half just fanned the fire.

    Finally, changing the rules to allow for taking out a ref is a very dangerous idea, just like allowing a ref's decisions to be retroactively modified is a very dangerous idea. Part of what makes the sport clean -- *most* of the time, this time being an exception -- is that the ref commands respect. The referee, on the field, is, in essence, God. What he sees is what happened, and that's the way the game is played. Any rules that undermine this power also undermine the respect he commands, and thus undermine his ability to control the game.

    Moreover, doing that would also open a whole can of worms at halftime, with coaches going to argue with whoever it is that's in charge of that decision about such-and-such wrong call and other such badness.

  10. #9
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    the website is cool, thanks for introduce.


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