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  1. #1
    Senior Member raspberryh's Avatar
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    Okay I know this is Non-Web Design Discussion, but this is a super-non-web design or computers or anything type of question. I didn't really have any kind of 3rd party to go to - like friends or family, cauz this is kind of about them... :ermm:
    I guess the thing is, lately, I am realizing that people are just so... well I don't really know how to describe it - they're just selfish jerks who don't care about other people's feelings.
    Which yeah, I mean of course I've always known that there are a lot of jerks out there. But what I never expected was that the people closest to me would end up being jerks and hurting me. I mean I would think that my friends and family would care about me. But you know what? They don't.
    As for my friends, it's like they like to see me upset. Like they like to hurt my feelings. If they know something upsets me, and esp. if I tell them, they just DON'T CARE! Which makes them not real friends by my opinion!! And I tell myself, it's cauz they just aren't nice people. There are nice people out there. And these were my friends from high school, so they seem like they're kind of stuck in the "high school" days - like they haven't quite grown up yet, and they're still into that high school kind of crap. But I have a hard time making friends. So I can't find real quality nice people to have as friends. They always have their own friends already anyways.
    Okay so then, in addition to that - family. Which to me, is the WORST because you're stuck with them. My sister - she always hurts me and doesn't care about my feelings. So I tell myself, I won't let myself get close to her. But then she's nice again, and she SUCKS me back in! And for some reason, I get sucked back in and want to have a relationship with her again. So I do something like confide in her, tell her how I feel - and then she hurts me again. It just keeps happening.
    Now, I can keep her at a distance... But then, at family gatherings, well I just don't know how to act.
    If there's one thing I am seriously lacking, it's how to be FAKE. So many people I am realizing are fake. Especially, my sister. It seems like the only way to deal with her and everyone else for that matter is to be fake. Which I am not good at. I mean, if she hurts me, then next time I'm around her, well, it's easy to tell. My emotions always show through. Oh yeah, the worst part is that she tells me that she WANTS me to let her know if I have a problem with her, but then when I let her know, she says that I always want to start fights with people!!!
    So I guess to sum it all up, how do you guys deal with people like this? Or I guess before you even answer that - do you even HAVE people in your life like this? I feel like I am the only person with this problem. But my mom said that in every family, there are people who are at odds, who hold each other at a distance. Is this true? Do you have this in your life? How do you deal with it?
    Because what I really wish is that I could just eliminate all the people in my life who don't care about me. But that would only leave like 2 people in my life... I'm just frustrated.

    Heather
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  3. #2
    Senior Member filburt1's Avatar
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    *looks at length of post*
    *runs away*
    filburt1, Web Design Forums.net founder
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  4. #3
    Senior Member raspberryh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by filburt1
    *looks at length of post*
    *runs away*
    :cry:
    choosy developers choose gif!
    website | paintings | blog

  5. #4
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    Ok, so I'd usually reply to something like this in a bit-by-bit manner, but I'm going the all-at-once route this time.

    First of all, I'm lucky enough to have a great family, so I don't really have anyone in my immediate family I'm at odds with (though naturally I wrangle with each and every other member of my family every once in a while). So instead I'll go for the `people are jerks' thing.

    Yeah, people are jerks. A little backstory here: I have that typical geek story of the person with few friends and no particularly good ones who gets made fun of often. So yeah, I can say from experience, people are jerks.

    But, one must never make the mistake of confusing people with person. `Because of the spelling', as Eddie Izzard would say, except in this case that's not it. People, in general, tend to jerkiness. A specific person may not. So that's important, but it doesn't seem like you missed that, so that's probably an explanation wasted :-)

    Anyway, the way I deal with jerks is ignoring them. Now, this isn't a `turn the other cheek' thing. I don't sit there and let myself get lambasted or whatever. Generally speaking, I'll either quietly tell whoever's being a jerk that they're being a jerk, or I'll look at them, amused, and then leave when they're done spewing whatever it is that they're spewing at that particular moment.

    Now, you're right, it does lead to a slightly less-than-social life :-) My social life generally revolves around very few people. But you know what? I can enjoy the time I spend with them. Not only that, I can talk to them about most anything. Now, I've never been on the other side -- that is to say, I've never been inundated in friends. So I don't know which is better. But from where I'm standing, the grass is pretty damn green on my side of the fence, and I have no temptation to throw my cap over it.

    Concerning fakeness... Don't be fake. It sucks for you and it misleads others. Even if you're misleading them so they're happy, you pay a cost yourself. There is little that a truth would deliver that offsets the personal cost of false pretense.

    But rest assured, you are not the only one with people like this in your life. My theory is, most people are like this. The few are those worth knowing. But I think having the many to deal with is a fair price to pay for getting to know those few who are worth it.

  6. #5
    WDF Staff Wired's Avatar
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    [EDITED @ 8:07 PM]

    raspberryh:
    would you like the psycho-babble profile here or in a PM? (yes, it's a long post, but even so, there's stuff missing which I won't say in public)

    Staying relatively safe:

    One thing to note first: Nothing said here is to be taken in any way towards you, this is just generalizations of people and psychology, and I'll probably forget a bunch of stuff, so if it seems to be one way or another, it isn't meant to, just holes in the discussion. Occasionally I'll finish a paragraph in a way that has nothing to do with the beginning of it, nor the original point.


    People wear different masks (e.g. personas / personalities) in different situations and around different people. It depends on how they know the person, and how that person's personality is.

    Example: A friend of mine (let's call him Zeppo) from college is in short, an *******. A bit of a schemer, womanizer, hell, the guy even had an electric bong (doesn't have anything to do with anything, just funny as hell)! *******'s even his nickname between three of us (call me Groucho, and the 3rd guy Harpo) who would hit Steak and Shake at 3 AM a couple times a week in our sohpmore year. None of our conversations meant anything at all for the most part, and Zeppo was a juvenile putz. Something to do with shining a pocket laser on the female server's ... uniform... Did Harpo and I chuckle a bit, even though it was below our humor threshhold, and demeaning to the server? Yep. Why? Well, we are guys (all guys are a bit scummy, something to do with hormones), and because of our moronic friend who we were around. Did we tell him to stop? Yep. Rarely worked though. Harpo and I never said anything derogatory or anything, always polite, even when talking amongst ourselves. When Zeppo wasn't with us, every time we saw her we'd be reminded of Zeppo being a ****ing moron, and state that as such in the conversation. Yes, we apologized profusely multiple times because of him. Thankfully she never noticed the laser anyway, and knew we were ok guys.

    The point is, Harpo and I are upstanding gents, but our outer personas would change a bit because of our friend Zeppo. Now this all isn't to say that you're making them act this way around you. However, there's something in their past that's triggered when you're around, like the hottie server making us think of Zeppo and apologizing, etc. Also, they could be acting that way around you for other reasons. They could be scared / envious of you, or you remind them of their own shortcomings, or they chould have one of a thousand different emotions going through their head at any time. It could just be their own insecurities stemming from something else, and have nothing to do with you entirely.

    Another example: As you can see by some of my posts, yeah, my brain ****ing works. I have intelligence in there. Do I act like a complete moron, second / triple / quadruple guessing around some people, even when I'm damn sure I'm right? Yep. Why? Partially when people make me nervous, also because I know that even when something is 100% correct, it may not be. That's computers and life for ya. Just like the opposite saying goes, nothing's impossible, just improbable. I've seen too many situations where something SHOULD work a particular way, or act a particular way, everything's correct, but it doesn't for some stupid reason.

    Now getting back on topic (more-so anyway), people change. Yes, it sucks. One of my oldest friends, on the rare occasion that we talk (I'm from PA, so I rarely talk to anyone from up there in general), generally throws his mediocre success in my face half the time. Am I just reading too much into what he says? I wish. He actively attempts in conversations to trump any minor success of mine that I speak about (e.g. getting a new car). Do I wonder WTF happened to him? Yep. I've got a good idea actually, but seeing that we don't live in the same state anymore, speculation is all I have, no proof, therefore I'll let him speak how he does. It's easy enough to put up with that type of crap once a year though.

    As for hurting your feelings, I can only speak from heresay about how girls speak in private to each other, but I'd guess it's similar to how guys do. Supportive in some situations, and in other, completely busting on each other. Is it stupid, juvenile, hurtful? Yep, but that's how it is. Do I like it? Nope. Do I try not to go with the flow? Yep. Do I succeed? Sometimes. Unfortunately I'm also the instigator, so I certainly can't hold myself above anyone else. Holding yourself to a higher standard though, even if you rarely hit it, is something to be proud of. It's a way of trying to better yourself. Just never say to yourself that you're better than person X or Y, because tomorrow you could say something stupid that could be more hurtful than anything they've ever said.

    Another saying is: A person is smart, people are stupid. Going back to my posts for a sec, I'm taking my time stating something, I'm not around other people, I have the ability to fully think out my statements. Why? No pressure of time. When you're talking to someone in real-time (phone or in person mostly; chat / IM can go either way, that is to say they can be both time sensitive and time-insensitive), you subconsciously feel the pressure of having to say something NOW (in relative terms), you and/or them may say something which you may not completely mean (if at all).

    As for friends not growing up, well, people "grow up" differently, and at different speeds. Add on top of that that people our age mature more slowly than say, our parents, or our grandparents, simply due to the lack of needing to in a certain sense, as well as living longer average lives, among various reasons.

    Unfortunately another reason for people acting like assholes is the stupid fact that they don't know any better. Partially due to a lack of common sense, or they don't see how their actions affect others, or they don't see others interact with each other and learn from others' mistakes. Ignorance is bliss.

    Quote Originally Posted by raspberryh
    So I can't find real quality nice people to have as friends. They always have their own friends already anyways.
    Couldn't agree more. Won't comment more on this, as I could easily go a couple of paragraphs on the psycho-babble around this one.


    Quote Originally Posted by raspberry
    the worst part is that she tells me that she WANTS me to let her know if I have a problem with her, but then when I let her know, she says that I always want to start fights with people!!!
    I'm not unfamiliar with this. Aside from telling her that she wanted to know when she affected you like this, you could always write a letter (handwritten, typed, whatever, although handwritten would probably come across better and more personal). Like I said above somewhere (40 pages ago? ), making a statement in text can help you to clarify your thoughts. If you do choose to do this, whatever you say, be VERY clear at the end (and in other places as well if you so choose) that she's your sister, and you'll always love her regardless of any stupid argument you have, or no matter how bad one of you makes the other feel, or no matter how differing your opinions may be. Make sure she doesn't think you're attacking her in the letter, or pointing out her faults.

    Are people fake? All the time, it's how they cope. People are scared. People are frightened. People just want to feel safe, with their friends, with their family, and with themselves. Being fake, wearing masks of one type or another (masks can be fake personas, friendly personas, courageous personas, etc.) is just how people deal with the world around them. This is why marriages, relationships, friendships fail. They don't show their whole persona. They're scared that if they do, it'll end. The stress of wearing a mask can wear down the relationship between two people, and the people themselves. If you have to wear a mask, try to choose which one you're wearing a bit more consciously.

    Now this isn't to say that you should purposely be fake. Be yourself as much as you can. Doesn't mean that someone has to know about every part of your persona though. There's a big difference between simply not sharing all of who and what your are, and lying about yourself.


    Know thyself. It may make you a better person and help you relate with others better.

    As for eliminating uncaring people from your life, it is an option. Can't say I've got a lot of friends, but of the ones I do have, I clearly know which ones I can trust and even confide in, and which one I can't. I'm not exactly saying keep your friends close and your enemies closer, just be aware of the different levels of friendship / relationships that you do have with the people in and around your life.

    [/end]
    =================================================

    And you thought your post was long! Yes, I've hit the post limit occasionally in a forum or 2


    As you can probably see, I'm an observer. My ******* detector is fine tuned. Fortunately part of me is an optimist, so I also see the good side of people. Too bad I'm also a bit cynical. Yep, the thoughts are going every which way in my poor widdle brain, thank goodness I don't have multiple personalities, or else I think I could host my own talk show! LMAO


    Oh yeah,

    Shadowfiend:
    I've only seen one Eddie Izzard show on TV, but it was hillarious.
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  7. #6
    WDF Staff smoseley's Avatar
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    Heather, I can relate a bit. I'm going to give a couple personal anecdotes that may help you out:

    ------------------------------

    My mom is extremely judgemental of people. She constantly tells me and my brother little things she wants us to change about ourselves. Her latest thing is that she wants my brother to lose some weight and grow his hair a little longer, and she will not let up! It got to the point where he stopped talking to her for a while. Well, she's also judgemental of our girlfriends (although my brother's now married). My last serious girlfriend, for example, was a little shy, and was not a "primpy" girl (refer to your geeks/nerds post). So my mom would constantly bug me about that. Blah, blah, blah. Typical nagging, so I let it go in one ear and out the other. But sometimes she wouldn't let up, so I had to let her know that she was out of place. And if she ever addressed my ex about it I had to put her in her place. Parent or not, she really had no right adding that stress to my relationship.

    My dad is a very conservative guy. He does everything by the book and always plays it safe. Well, he won't let up off of me about my choices in cars (small, fast, sporty cars that could get me killed). He carries a very angry tone with me in general, often condescending to me, calling me immature, etc. Now, I don't have the greatest driving record. Who am I kidding... if speeding were illegal, I'd be serving a life sentence. And I know my dad's anger stems from his fear that I'll kill myself, which would sadden him. So since he's unable to decipher his own emotions, I do it for him, and I tell him that I am not out to die, and I do what I can not to die, and I promise I'll be safe, but I won't sacrifice my happiness just to satisfy his conservative nature, because then I might as well be dead.

    My brother is a control freak, and is also very conservative. He constantly tries to exercise control over me, since I'm the black sheep of the family. He doesn't like that my life choices don't coincide with his ideals, and he tries to do whatever he can to influence my decisions - lecture, reason, yell, manipulate. But it doesn't work. It will never work, because I'm not him, and I never will be him, and I let him know that. He still doesn't let up. He picks on me whenever he gets a chance. As a result, he is not the friend to me that he could be. His loss.

    ------------------------------

    Basically, you have to establish relationships with the people around you that will be mutually rewarding. If people try to enforce their will upon you, they are trying to fulfill their own needs, even if they believe they are doing so to help you. Everyone is selfish to a degree, but not everything bad is done with selfish intent. A lot of the evils we perceive in this world are just derived from misguided actions.

    The bottom line, though is that if the people you love are unable to accept you and respect your decisions, your best option may be to let them go in pursuit of your own happiness. You will never be content if you feel the need to please everyone around you - especially if they have proven to show consistent discontent with your past decisions.

    It's really tough, because family is a "sacred bond" or whatever. I've never been really big on that "blood is thicker than water" BS, though. Society and its ideals can kiss my a$$, and if my family and "friends" insisted on treating me like crap, they could kiss my a$$ too!

    Anyhow, I hope you get through this rough time ok... life goes on! Just keep being a good person, and do your best to surround yourself with good people, and good things will come to you!

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wired
    As you can probably see, I'm an observer.
    Hey, another! :-P

    Quote Originally Posted by Wired
    My ******* detector is fine tuned.
    Dammit, about a month and a half ago I would have agreed with you... Recent events, however, imply that I was incorrect to trust my ******* detector.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wired
    Fortunately part of me is an optimist, so I also see the good side of people.
    See, there's the funny thing where I tend to differ from most people. I've recently made this a conscious decision, but I was doing it unconsciously for a while, too. I do my 100% best not to see the bad side of people. Even if they treat me like crap, I try my best to ignore that, too. I had my little period of hating people because they didn't treat me nicely back in high school, but I'm over it. I figure, why risk getting angry (this is a risk with me... I have a tendency to get far too angry when I get angry) over someone who doesn't know how to treat others with respect? Best that I follow that golden rule instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wired
    Oh yeah,

    Shadowfiend:
    I've only seen one Eddie Izzard show on TV, but it was hillarious.
    Eddie Izzard is my favoritest man in the WORLD. We own two of his routines on DVD, and another few should be added soon, I just have to get the money and convince myself it's worth it. I've seen Dress to Kill about fifty times (literally). Which means it isn't as funny as once it was, unfortunately, but it's still exceedingly hilarious. One of my favorite side-effects from knowing Eddie Izzard was an IM conversation with my brother:

    (00:03:15) Me: Note: There aren't angles kneeling to the northern light, although there are some angels doing so. [This was concerning a facebook quote from Hole's "Northern Star".]
    (00:04:23) Him: **** YOU!!
    (00:04:25)Him:
    (00:05:06)Him: Sind sie sehr GRAMMAR NAZI, mein Herr?
    (00:06:00) Me: Jawol, mein Herr. So habe ich linge wenige. Locher bekommen. [I don't know German, btw.]
    (00:06:34)Him: ...
    (00:06:37)Him: creeeeepy.
    (00:06:45) Me: " Well done, Simpkins. That's a line from Monty Python, isn't it?"

  9. #8
    WDF Staff Wired's Avatar
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    I had my little period of hating people because they didn't treat me nicely back in high school, but I'm over it. I figure, why risk getting angry over someone who doesn't know how to treat others with respect? Best that I follow that golden rule instead.
    I got more mad over people mistreating others than myself. If it was towards me I'd just ignore it, walk in a different direction, etc. If it was against someone else, I'd immediately stand up for them (even if they didn't like me and vice versa), regardless of the consequences towards myself. After HS, I heard some stories of how karma kicked some of the jerks from HS in the ***, and then some.

    No, I don't understand that Izzard joke at all.
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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wired
    I got more mad over people mistreating others than myself. If it was towards me I'd just ignore it, walk in a different direction, etc. If it was against someone else, I'd immediately stand up for them (even if they didn't like me and vice versa), regardless of the consequences towards myself.
    Ah yes. I do get into those on occasion...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wired
    No, I don't understand that Izzard joke at all.
    It wasn't so much a joke from Eddie Izzard as it was a funny reference in context. Which, I suppose, is missing here. Right... :-P

  11. #10
    Senior Member planetgman's Avatar
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    I can sum it up in just a few points.
    First, quit being a victim, Heather. You let your friends create this drama around you and then you buy into it.
    Second, live your own life. Family and friends are always there, but YOU control how much interaction and the type of interaction you want to have.
    In which case, refer to my first point.
    Simple circle.
    GMan


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