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  1. #1
    Senior Member danrc1985's Avatar
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    The whole battle matchup thing, forget that. I just had to do it :cheeky:

    I use IE, and it seems as if alot of people on these boards use Firefox, and wondered what it had over IE... why firefox?
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  3. #2
    Senior Member Brak's Avatar
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    It has everyting over IE.

    Take IE to be a stale rye cracker. Firefox is a custom made sandwich from a deli made only of the finest meats, vegetables and home-cooked bread.
    Kyle Neath: Rockstar extraordinare
    The blog | The poetry site | The Spore site

  4. #3
    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
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    Personally, I don't like Firefox. I find it takes up far more resource on my machine than IE and the vast majority of average users don't have it. I also haven't seen anything in Firefox that would compel me to use it more than IE, and IE is three years old.

    So if I were to sacrifice one browser in favour of another, I'd go with IE over Firefox.
    If I've helped you out in any way, please pay it forward. My wife and I are walking for Autism Speaks. Please donate, and thanks.

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  5. #4
    Senior Member Brak's Avatar
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    Hmm.. .then you haven't used firefox that much adam.

    Some stuff I can't live without anymore:
    -Web Developer Extension
    --Window Resizing (for resolution tests)
    --Disable things like javascript, cookies, styles
    --Style changer
    --Quick links that tests pages speed, standards compliance, 508, and many many more
    --EditCSS: Edit css dynamically in a sidebar while page updates on the right
    --Outline whatever elements you like, I usually go with block elements & id/name tags visable
    --Quick view source button

    -Sidebars: simply the best way to use my large resolution monitors

    -Find as you type: I can't stress how useful this is. If I want to find something on a page, I simply start typing the word and firefox finds it for me & highlights it.

    -Google search box. Don't have to deal with that auto-complete crap or taking up a complete extra bar on my browser like the IE google toolbar does

    -Doesn't crash

    -Doesn't crash my system

    -Doesn't mutilate my computer

    -Doesn't install spyware without asking

    -Download manager that works

    -Skinnable

    -Vast variety of extensions and user-support.

    -Tabbed browsing. Not any IE addon beats how mozilla handles tabs. I love that I can click a link in a post, have the page load in a background tab while I read the post, then switch over and the page is complete. Not to mention, tons of other stuff.



    So, like I said IE is a rye cracker - it will fill you up if you eat enough of them. But why eat a stale rye cracker when you can have the best sandwich ever made?
    Kyle Neath: Rockstar extraordinare
    The blog | The poetry site | The Spore site

  6. #5
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    i have mozilla, but on my old vaio i stick to ie cause it loads faster, i like mozilla more, both are needed for testing purposes.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Brak's Avatar
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    Ah! I knew I was forgetting stuff:

    -View this page in IE (in right-click context menu) for easy testing

    -Copy image to clipboard
    Kyle Neath: Rockstar extraordinare
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  8. #7
    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
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    You're right, I haven't. I've used it only to test to see if pages work in it. And the reason I have it is because I saw so many flaws in it the first time that I have no interest in using it as my default browser:
    1. It uses 32 MB of RAM. No browser should need to do that.
    2. The default icon in the top left corner is the Windows icon. Couldn't they have at least gotten that right so that when I'm looking for it in the taskbar, I don't get confused?
    3. The Google toolbar is missing the PageRank/directory/voting features. This by itself is enough for me.
    4. It's too easy to disable things that shouldn't be disabled by the average user, such as Java, Javascripts, and CSS. Can anyone else see Joe Blow disabling that stuff and then blaming us in the design/development community when he can't view most sites? I sure can.

    It also has some incredibly useless and resource-hogging features like:
    1. Skins. Leave your browsers alone. There's nothing wrong with them the way they are...well, except for Firefox. Their toolbar icons are hideous and cartoonish, much like most XP-esque graphical interfaces are. They're also way too close together.
    2. Download managers that list downloaded files that were never specifically downloaded. For example, a SWF file on a site that I looked at with it showed up in the download manager. I can't see this getting bloated and causing resource issues and crashes, can you?

    But wait...there's more stupidity in the works:
    1. The toolbars. They can't be resized or repositioned in any way that I could see. With IE, they can be dragged wherever one desires, and then Locked into place.

      Quite frankly, I like my Google toolbar on its own line. That way, I can access the information that I want to directly from it.

    That's why IE hasn't bothered to do anything in three years; they don't have to. They'll just let Mozilla continue to sink into the ground. Hell, if I were Microsoft, I'd be laughing my *** off at them.

    As far as finding text in a document goes, is hitting <CTRL><F> really all that difficult to do? Come on.

    The only thing Firefox has over IE, and has had since Netscape 4.7, is the Javascript console. It's much easier to edit JScripts with it than it is with IE. But other than that, it's a bloated piece of garbage and I'm not telling my guys to waste a lot of time developing for and with it right now.

    Mozilla has made a major mistake, and a mistake that many software companies make: they targetted the intelligent computer user. The problem with that logic is that most intelligent computer users (developer types) fall under the "book-smart, street-stupid" category and fail to realize that most of the things they like are not most of the things the majority likes. In other words, Mozilla built a browser that will appeal to a small, loyal minority, but will not gain any major market share if they continue to go down the path they're on.

    Another company has employed a similar concept with an operating system. You may have heard of them. They're called Linux. And Microsoft is still spanking their asses all over the yard.

    Fact is, Microsoft may be crass commercialism at its very very finest, and while I don't agree with everything they do and there are a lot of their products I can't stand, when it comes to browsers they've got everyone else beat.
    If I've helped you out in any way, please pay it forward. My wife and I are walking for Autism Speaks. Please donate, and thanks.

    If someone helped you out, be sure to "Like" their post and/or help them in kind. The "Like" link is on the bottom right of each post, beside the "Share" link.

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  9. #8
    Senior Member Brak's Avatar
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    Well adam, unfortuantely your'e wrong on every single one of your points.

    1. My install is currently at 20megs, while explorer.exe is hovering around 50mb for no aparant reason. Memory leaks were an issue back in the .6/.7 days, and by 1.0 they should be solved nearly completely. Remember, it's still in a beta phase.

    2. Mine is the firefox logo. In 0.6 some OSes didn't recognize it, but it's been fixed after the whole new branding scheme went into place.

    3. Okay, you're right on one thing. You reason it's missing is because google has a contract with microsoft that prohibits them from giving out PR info to any other company. Can't blame Mozilla for this at all.

    4. It's easy for the experienced user... for the average user I would put it near impossible. My stepmom can barely use the back button let alone have her install an extension and find disable CSS in a context menu.


    1. You just disproved your point. You dislike the default interface, but say that skinning is useless. By skinning you could have it exactly as you wish to look.

    2. You're obviously using an older version. My download manager only shows files I download to disk & xpi's I install.


    1. Right click next to the empty space next to the file/edit, etc menus, hit customize. It's 10x easier than IE, simple drag & drop.


    Also for the majority, yes. However consider this point: In the past 8 months mozilla based browsers have grown 5000% percent in overall browser counts. Rome wasn't built in a day my friend.

    Also, mozilla has been featured in thousands of PC mags/shows claiming it's excellence. If you watch TechTV for 10minutes you're bound to hear mozilla this, firefox that. They are gaining a large market share. Its just a matter of time at this point.
    Kyle Neath: Rockstar extraordinare
    The blog | The poetry site | The Spore site

  10. #9
    Senior Member danrc1985's Avatar
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    The whole battle matchup thing, forget that. I just had to do it
    lol, i guess we do have a matchup going, so...

    END OF ROUND ONE... [actually there has been more than one round of debating]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    "I'll do it later!:tired:"
    - Dan Clarkson (me)

    Protonic Studios I DanClarkson.net
    [both coming soon!]

  11. #10
    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brak
    Well adam, unfortuantely your'e wrong on every single one of your points.

    1. My install is currently at 20megs, while explorer.exe is hovering around 50mb for no aparant reason. Memory leaks were an issue back in the .6/.7 days, and by 1.0 they should be solved nearly completely. Remember, it's still in a beta phase.
    Be that as it may, it's at 0.8 now and i'm looking at 32 vs. 12 for IE.
    2. Mine is the firefox logo. In 0.6 some OSes didn't recognize it, but it's been fixed after the whole new branding scheme went into place.
    0.8 and it ain't fixed yet.
    3. Okay, you're right on one thing. You reason it's missing is because google has a contract with microsoft that prohibits them from giving out PR info to any other company. Can't blame Mozilla for this at all.
    I personally haven't heard anything like this before. And I'm not totally sure I believe it either. It's Google's information to distribute as they see fit, not Microsoft's. And if that were the case, PR wouldn't be available on Google's own website via the directory.

    So unless you can show me some credible source for this, I refuse to accept it as truth. If you can, I can and will stand corrected.

    Even if this is true, however, it still is irrelevant in the sense that the information I'm looking for (i.e. the PR itself) is not available. Whether it's Mozilla's issue or Microsoft's really makes no difference. It's the lack of information being there.
    4. It's easy for the experienced user... for the average user I would put it near impossible. My stepmom can barely use the back button let alone have her install an extension and find disable CSS in a context menu.
    These are exactly the types of people who will be most likely to disable something. I see it all the time; people click blindly on things, then when something gets screwed up, click blindly on some more things, and so on and so on with no idea what they're doing.

    I've got at least half a dozen clients who will do exactly this type of thing. It happens so often that I've coined the term "accidental genius" for just such behaviour.
    1. You just disproved your point. You dislike the default interface, but say that skinning is useless. By skinning you could have it exactly as you wish to look.
    The point is that it should look the way I want it to with very minor adjustments the first time, and this doesn't even come close. In order to have it the way I'd like, I'd have to go through skin after skin after skin until I got it, wasting time. IE had it pretty close to the way I like the first time, and all I had to do was take out two buttons.
    [/quote]
    2. You're obviously using an older version. My download manager only shows files I download to disk & xpi's I install.
    0.8.
    1. Right click next to the empty space next to the file/edit, etc menus, hit customize. It's 10x easier than IE, simple drag & drop.
    I got that far, but it took me forever to figure out how to space the icons out the way I wanted and get rid of the Google toolbar.
    Also for the majority, yes. However consider this point: In the past 8 months mozilla based browsers have grown 5000% percent in overall browser counts. Rome wasn't built in a day my friend.
    Not an especially difficult task when browser share was the square root of jack all to begin with.
    Also, mozilla has been featured in thousands of PC mags/shows claiming it's excellence. If you watch TechTV for 10minutes you're bound to hear mozilla this, firefox that. They are gaining a large market share. Its just a matter of time at this point.
    This is exactly what I mean by "the wrong audience has been targeted". Who reads PC mags/watches the tech shows? The technically inclined. And even then, a lot of us don't watch the shows or read the mags because much of the information is outdated, archaic, or just plain bogus.

    This is why it's not going to gain much more market share than it already has; it simply cannot. If I were to show 500 of the people I know Firefox, 499 would take one look and go straight back to IE. Maybe one developer would keep it, but again, I'm not targeting that individual.

    It will be at least a year before Mozilla will gain enough steam, if at all, to even remotely be able to take on IE, and by then IE will have likely released a new browser to go along with Longhorn and stuff Mozilla right back in everyone's closet along with that old guitar we all wanted to learn as a teenager and never did.

    Mozilla is not the wave of the future...it's a ripple in the pond of the present.
    If I've helped you out in any way, please pay it forward. My wife and I are walking for Autism Speaks. Please donate, and thanks.

    If someone helped you out, be sure to "Like" their post and/or help them in kind. The "Like" link is on the bottom right of each post, beside the "Share" link.

    My stuff (well, some of it): My bowling alley site | Canadian Postal Code Info (beta)


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