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  1. #1
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    Thank you for reading this message.

    It's like this. My friend is a handicapped person and he sells photos through internet to make a life. One day, he found that his pic was uploaded on another photo-selling website and it really disturbed him. There is one thing we couldn't explain so we would like to seek advice in this forum:

    My friend edited his pic by PHOTOSHOP 1) to trim the pic into smaller size and 2) to add his logo on it. He then uploaded the EDITED pic on his website and saved the ORIGINAL pic in CD-ROM. He never uploaded the ORIGINAL pic on net and didn't save the ORIGINAL pic in his PC. Strange is that, when he found that his pic was uploaded on another website, it was the ORIGINAL pic (without the logo and in its original size as it has never been trimmed before).

    It was a pic of some kids playing on the beach. He trimmed the pic up to their ankles but the stolen pic showed down to their ankles (as in the original). Even worse, that "theif" got rid of my friend's logo and added his own to sell the pic.

    We just wonder if there is any software out there which could "undo" all the process done in photoshop, or programs that could restore a jepg file even after it has been saved. We are not familiar with the "compression" procedure of jpeg file so we are not sure whether all the (original) data of a digital picture is still contained in an edited-and-saved file.

    That my friend's photo being stolen would really cause problems in his livinghood so we hope some experts could answer our question. I appreciate your advice and help.

    Thank you very much.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member justlivyalife's Avatar
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    Welcome to WDF. This has been posted in the wrong forum really, but a moderator will move it for you.

    Firstly I'd like to express my sympathy that your friend's photograph has been stolen.

    To my knowledge, it would be impossible to get hold of the original file once it had been edited, unless the other person had managed to get hold of the CD.

    I am not entirely sure of the situation here, but would it be possible to give us a few links to show what you are explaining at all?

    I can think of only one explanation without viewing the files, and that is that possibly the other website owner took the picture at the same place?
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  4. #3
    Senior Member glyakk's Avatar
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    The jpg format does not hold such information. JPEG is a final image format witch means it does not hold data that can be used to edit the pictuer like a PSD wich would hold layer information or PCT that might carry an alpha channel. So the possability that the web based jpg was used to recreate or undo the changes your friend made is not an option. To my knowledge, even the PSD(photoshop) format does not carry 'history' information in the file itself. The 'theif' had to have some access to the orgional in some form to be able to display the orgional.


  5. #4
    WDF Staff Wired's Avatar
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    How/where did your friend get the photo in the first place?
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  6. #5
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    Thank you for all the repyling.

    My friend took the picture on a beach with a digital camera. One look and you can tell they (the original and the stolen) are the very same pic.

    I just have this concept that, when you trim a pic the file size decreases, which indicates a loss of data (of that trimmed portion). And without that part of data, the pic simply couldn't be retrived. That sounds logical to me. But as we don't know how exactly a photo is "compressed" in photoshop, we just couldn't make any conculstion by ouurselves, especially in this era that you can duplicate a dinosaur should you find the DNA...

    From what I know, a jpeg file stores the data pixel by pixel and that's all the information it holds. We made a complain to the theft site and now they have pulled the whole site off -- and that's why we couldn't get the answer from them either.

    Anyway thank you all very much. I just hope these copyright violation won't happen anymore in internet.

  7. #6
    Senior Member glyakk's Avatar
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    Well its good they responded to your request.. And you are correct in your assumption of how a jpg is stored. But unlike the dinosaur dna issue, each pixle of a jpg does not hold the 'blue print' for the whole image, just for itself.

    So I stand by my argument that the orgional pictuer must have been compermised somehow. After all you stated that the image was worked in photoshop it did exist on a hard drive in some fashion, and there is the possiability that your friend might have (accidently)uploaded the image to his webspace(but not nessessarily a website) where somebody could have gained access to it.. There are many ways the image might have been obtained, so maybe your friend might want to pay more attention as to how he moves his files around since somebody has found a way to compermise them.


  8. #7
    Senior Member james's Avatar
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    Interesting story, I was wondering if the picture was opened straight from the digital memory into photoshop, or if your friend had it burnt onto a CD-ROM first at a photo lab.

    Can you tell us the exact sequence? I'm guessing:
    Code:
    Camera -> Attached to computer --> (1) Edited with photoshop -> Sent to web
                                   --> (2) Burnt to CD with other images in Memory
    One possibility is that they got the whole image from the EXIF thumbnail in the image. The digital camera almost certainly saved this with the original, and Photoshop may have left it untouched. This seems the most likely thing, unless someone with physical access to the photos stole it, eg lab worker or thief.

    Otherwise, no, if the photo is trimmed, you can't recover anything outside it, although you may be able to gain another 4-7 pixels at the edges. Your ideas were interesting because technically JPEG uses Fourier Analysis to do compression, and holograms hold a Fourier analysis of a 3D scene, and any little chunk of a hologram will reproduce the whole scene, but the smaller the chunk, the blurrier the image.
    JPEG's are like heaps of little 8x8 pixel holograms, hence you might be able to get another 4-7 pixels from it.

    Can you tell us:
    a) Size (in pixels) of the original
    b) Size of watermarked and cropped image, and scaling used.
    c) Size of 'borrowed' image on other person's website.

    Also this program [ http://www.snapfiles.com/download/dleasyexif.html ] will show you all the EXIF data in the image, and give you a look at the thumbnail, but I don't if it shows you the thumbnail at actual size (I just googled and found it then).
    James H
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  9. #8
    WDF Staff smoseley's Avatar
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    Not sure if anyone thought of this, but if your friend sells the pictures, he probably sells the originals (uncropped). It's likely that they bought the pic to resell it.

  10. #9
    Senior Member james's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by transio
    Not sure if anyone thought of this, but if your friend sells the pictures, he probably sells the originals (uncropped). It's likely that they bought the pic to resell it.
    Yeah good point.
    James H
    Home Page · Mars Page · www.fihsf1.net (formerly www·fihs·net)


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