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  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    Tables...

    Use the slice tool in photoshop, import to dreamweaver, delete the white spaces, finish the web page.

    CSS...
    Use the slice tool in photoshop, create new html document in dreamweaver, spend X amount of time aligning and getting page to look how you want, then type content.

    Now don't get me wrong, i hand code everything i do, using firefox "refresh" to see how its going after each step. But CSS is harder work, especially if you are using dreamweaver.

    Now for formatting CSS is king, it takes all the effort out of changing text and targetting elements.

    For positioning though it can be a pain, i heard that one of its main benefits is that you can easily redesign a webpage by changing the style sheet. I would have disagree, it would be just as easy if not easier to tables for layout, then CSS for text and image formatting.

    Are there any thoughts on this?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member jbagley's Avatar
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    Document Structure
    tables force the typical structure of a web page (top down) to the designers settings. This is a potential accessibility problem and even search engines have to wade through the layout to get to the content.

    Bandwidth
    A cached css and Strict Doctype web page delivers a much lighter website overall and enhances the viewing experience.

    Business Savings
    A designer can turn up, wash their brush across the photoshop canvas then add the images to a single stylesheet. Try re-imaging a 300 page table based layout.

    Search Engine Benefits
    More content, less code means search engines like your site more. A spider has to crunch your site and there's nothing worse than cracking a coconut to get to a mouldy core. Give them what they want, keep layout in a css.

    Accessibility
    More devices, platforms, browsers and other web agents can consume the content far more effectively.
    :classic:

    Have a look at this article aswell. Why tables for layout is stupid - problems defined, solutions offered

  4. #3
    Senior Member Shani's Avatar
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    CSS is the future, that's why you should take the time to learn it.

    Remember things CASCADE, so any div, span, or p applies within the bigger div span or p. Sometimes changing the div to a span will fix your problem, play around.

    Here's an example for you... Say you have a client that calls you and says, "I want to add a section to the main navigation." Note this is not a rhetorical story, it really happens! You now have to go into every page to add this new section. If your site is done in tables, that means you have to add a cell, and change the size of every cell within the row. If it's done in CSS, you change the width element on your buttons and all your pages have been adjusted (though you still need to add the new button, but this is very easy w/ a copy/paste find/replace in a WYSIWYG).

    "I don't like that background color." body{background-color:fff200} done and done, definitely beats page properties!

    Basically, when you are working with small sites, no big deal to update everything, but that's not the case for most projects.

    And on to other things: versatility in layout, overlap. Tables are grids. Everything has its place next to everything else. Something like text wrap can be very complicated in tables, easy w/ CSS. Overlapping images, impossible w/ tables, doable w/ CSS.

    Basically, CSS is a tool. Yes, the learning curve is steeper than tables, but why do people do it? It's a stronger tool, there are many advantages to it. It's a step. As I said before... it's the future.
    Shani

    I have an eye for detail like you'd never believe.

  5. #4
    Junior Member
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    Combination is the way to go. Most of the time, I use table for the main layout and CSS for the other styling.

    I am not disagreeing with benefits of CSS as mentioned above is true. However, in response to the original post's question, "Yes, CSS is a lot more work." I have done both CSS and Table based designs. And if I want to get a job done fast, I tend to go tables.

    I mean tables for the main layout. Of course, other stylistic things like background colors, I would use CSS.

    So for example ...

    <body>
    <div id="wrap">
    <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="750" >
    <tr>
    <td colspan="2" id="masthead">masthead</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td width="200" id="side">side</td>
    <td width="550" id="main">main</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td colspan="2" id="footer">footer</td>
    </tr>
    </table>
    </div>

    See all those ids. I use CSS to style the cells. And CSS the body background color, etc. The wrapping div is to CSS center align the page across the browser.

    Never do ...
    <table bgcolor="#ff0000">

    Otherwise you have the problem of maintenence as mentioned by others above.

    And never use the <font> tag embedded in your HTML.

    So I got the easy layout of tables, along with the maintability of CSS.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Shani's Avatar
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    I agree. Tables aren't evil, and they're great for tabular data. What you've described is something my teacher called a "Container Table."

    He said the new trend in web design is to go table-less, but that's retarded. Use tables for rows and columns, like your main layout. Stylize everything in CSS.
    Shani

    I have an eye for detail like you'd never believe.

  7. #6
    Junior Member etechdesigns's Avatar
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    I would say, table is for stucturing and layout and positioning objects in tabular format. However, CSS can be used styles and formating objects for visual presentations. I would recommend you should use CSS with minimal tables.
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    Total Quality Web Designs and Web Development

  8. #7
    Member themayanlion's Avatar
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    i have used both, and went through a period where i used CSS even for tabular data. Really it was just to see if i could. By doing that, i was able to learn enough about positioning and floating elements, that now i can make any kind of layout imaginable with CSS that i simply can't with tables, through clever image slicing, placement of background images, etc., so while the actual structure is unavoidably box like, the end result doesn't have to look like it, resulting in more interesting AND standards compliant layouts.

    i do use tables still, though only for organizing tabular data, as well as forms, simply because it's much faster than trying to get a ton of divs spaced right. but even then the rest of site and all the stuff surrounding those tables are almost invariably all CSS.

    i haven't used a table for layout in years, and i don't se emyself ever going back.


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