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  1. #1
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    Hey all, I am looking at Web Design as the course I think I want to take, though there are plenty of courses that are offered all over Canada, some being online and some being required to be taken at the college. I think that a dipoma looks better than a cetifercate, and I am wondering if this college for distance learning looks legit to you guys?.
    http://www.darttinstitute.ca/program-web-design.html

    What's that one like compared to this one?
    http://www.vanarts.com/programs/web-development

    The top one costs $10,000 for the estimated tuition, where the bottom one is $25,000 apparently. And I also found out a web design cetifercate only covers half of what the diploma program covers, according to VanArts. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

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  3. #2
    WDF Staff AlphaMare's Avatar
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    HOLY SMOKES!
    The first one teaches you Dreamweaver, Photoshop and Flash, no PHP, no MySQL or database, their Advanced CSS 201 was what we covered in three weeks at my college - you can get the same stuff at VCC for under $5000, but I wouldn't pay 2 cents for that course.

    The second one at least has a decent-sounding curriculum, and the student work on display is (mostly, I think there's some Joomla in there) hand-coded, so they are learning something, but I just couldn't see spending 25 grand.

    I guess I was lucky - I took my courses at a local CEGEP (Collège d'enseignement général et professionnel) and paid 2 bucks an hour for the courses, which are sponsored by the government of Quebec. But I still think you should be able to fond something good for less than the down payment on a house!
    Ronald Roe likes this.
    Good design should never say "Look at me!"
    It should say "Look at this." ~ David Craib


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  4. #3
    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
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    I don't even need to look at the cost of the curriculum in the case of the first one, or whatever they teach. I just need to look at some of their images.
    Code:
    <img src="img/icons/basic_comm.png" alt="decorative_image" width="100" height="100" class="icon" />
    Who puts underscores in their alt attributes (which they probably call "tags")? Thank you, drive through.

    Same thing with Van Arts:
    Code:
    <img src="http://www.vanarts.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/avatar/Caio_dept head.jpg" alt="" title=""  class="imagecache imagecache-avatar imagecache-default imagecache-avatar_default" width="75" height="105" />
    They didn't even describe their image.

    This is my big problem with the teaching of web design specifically and the education system in general. It comes back to the old adage: those who can't, teach (and my addendum: those who can't teach become guidance counsellors and destroy the promise of youth). These guys are teaching courses when they can't even do simple things like include an alt attribute. They probably have no clue how to market themselves (I'm guessing you saw a TV ad or a giant banner ad or possibly a $5.00 PPC ad on Google Adwords), and the cost of the spreading of their message is worked into the cost of these courses.

    Like Mare said, I'd run screaming from both. They're both far too expensive for the amount of applicable knowledge you'd gain (next to none, in all likelihood) and unfortunately, you're probably going to run into the same scenario regardless of college/university chosen.
    If I've helped you out in any way, please pay it forward. My wife and I are walking for Autism Speaks. Please donate, and thanks.

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  5. #4
    WDF Staff George Dolidze's Avatar
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    The teachers didn't necessarily design the website though.

    The problem with trying to get a web design degree (at least in the US) is that, it's such a specific subject that only specialized, and overpriced, private schools teach it. I know, because I went through the process of researching all the colleges with web design degrees, since I'm going to college next year. I finally decided to apply to a Business Marketing degree, and take some design and programming on the side. That way, I can go to an affordable state school.
    Does the same thing apply to Canada? Mare, Game?
    My freelancer website: DolidzeDesign



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  6. #5
    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
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    They may not have, but either they trained the kids who did or the kids weren't good enough and they hired an outside firm that did and wasn't good enough. Either way, teachers are ultimately accountable here. You teach design and development, you'd better know how to code or at least analyze it.

    As far as the education system in Canada is concerned, the private business colleges are less expensive and you'll probably learn more. They're all still grossly overpriced (supply and demand economics in its purest form) and that has been my biggest reason not to attend. I learned during my university days that 70% of tuition funds don't actually go to education...what a waste (the major reason I dropped out). That, and the whole "almost no chance at actually learning anything you can use" thing.

    The education system drastically needs to be overhauled.
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  7. #6
    WDF Staff AlphaMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Dolidze, post: 226181
    The teachers didn't necessarily design the website though.

    The problem with trying to get a web design degree (at least in the US) is that, it's such a specific subject that only specialized, and overpriced, private schools teach it. I know, because I went through the process of researching all the colleges with web design degrees, since I'm going to college next year. I finally decided to apply to a Business Marketing degree, and take some design and programming on the side. That way, I can go to an affordable state school.
    Does the same thing apply to Canada? Mare, Game?
    I was terrifically lucky - and my case is not at all typical. Because of my [S]age[/S] maturity and the fact that I had been unemployed for more than a year (laid off, nobody was hiring), I was able to get into a retraining program for the bulk of my courses - Emploi-Quebec (not sure of the equivalent in Ont, Game) extended my UI (unemployment insurance) for the first 12 months of the program (including my internship) and continues to underwrite the cost of future courses I take to upgrade (recently finished an intensive javascript course, 30 hours, $60).
    The college I attended is the equivalent of a state college in the US -and for some reason it had some really good profs, active developers, teaching current stuff , and encouraging us to research online and bring in questions about coding, best practices etc., which they answered and explored with us.

    We were taught HTML, CSS, PHP MySQL, javascript, AJAX, advanced database (hated db then, wish I had paid more attention now) as individual subjects and also how to integrate them to create usable sites. We touched on Dreamweaver at the very end of the program, for a couple of weeks, and by then we were good enough at hand-coding to drive the poor Dreamweaver teacher nuts. I wish I had a dollar for every time she said "Good work! But did you use DW or did you hand-code that?"

    So I got a good grounding in actual coding languages rather than software, and largely on the Quebec government's dime.
    George Dolidze likes this.
    Good design should never say "Look at me!"
    It should say "Look at this." ~ David Craib


    http://digitalinsite.ca ~ my current site . . info@digitalinsite.ca ~ my email

    If you feel that someone's post helped you fix your problem, answered your question, or just made you feel better, feel free to "Like" their post. The "Like" link is at the bottom right of each post, along side the "reply" link. And if you are being helped here, try to help someone else - pass it on!

  8. #7
    WDF Staff George Dolidze's Avatar
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    State colleges are held in pretty high esteem here. The one I'm going to has the one of the best business programs in the state. Pretty excited
    Usually, privates around here cost about 50k/year, while state universities are about 20k/yr.
    Then there are community colleges, which teach basic preparatory subjects, and cost about 1k a year. I am finishing a database class there now.
    My freelancer website: DolidzeDesign



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  9. #8
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    I would never go to any school to learn web deign. I agree you really should have a bachelors degree if you don't have one already. You'll need it to get a job at a respectable agency. It doesn't really matter what you get your degree in.

    If you want to focus more on web design, get a bachelors in graphic design or traditional art. If you want to focus on web development, get something in Computer Science. Both of these will give a solid foundation you can build on.

    To learn web design you can teach yourself with all the free online web resources out there. The main thing I learned in college was how to teach myself. This industry changes to fast, learn to teach yourself and you'll keep up nicely.

    At $10,000 and $25,000 you might as well go to a real university and get yourself a well rounded education.

    Thats me advice.

  10. #9
    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
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    I think that most of you are missing the one key facet of this person's post...he's not American. He's Canadian.

    The $10,000 - $25,000 would barely cover the cost of a public college here. University is about $10,000 a year. It's an absolute farce.
    If I've helped you out in any way, please pay it forward. My wife and I are walking for Autism Speaks. Please donate, and thanks.

    If someone helped you out, be sure to "Like" their post and/or help them in kind. The "Like" link is on the bottom right of each post, beside the "Share" link.

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  11. #10
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    Thank you all for your suggestions and tips of advice. seems like theres alot of different options and you can't learn everything on web design all in one course... and some courses you can take can teach you web design from home like in the first link in my first post in this thread but the diploma may not be registered to be worth something, etc.. you just don't know unless you do the math. But there are also "certificates" that are available in web design courses available through standard colleges aswell which you can take through distance learning too which to be honest look more legit than the one in the first link, as they are from a respected college.
    http://www.bcit.ca/study/programs/6420acert

    That one looks more legit, it says distance learning so you could take it from an 8 hour drive away I suppose and it's only $4000. But my question is, if it's just a certificate, is it still worth the same as a diploma, or worth something even?. I am guessing it all depends on your experience, not your diploma or certificate that you obtained... and this course may not even offer every last detail of web design that is learnable these days right?. Should I look at this one?. BCIT is definitely not a scam...


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