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  1. #1
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    In preparing to learn in-depth info about DW and all the terms that come with web designing:

    What exactly does the term slide toggle mean? I came across this term, in one of the threads, and googled it but still did not understand the term.

    I was suprised to see that DW has a few critics out there. With each type of programming language, I gather that there are pro's and con's for each but specifically, what are the con's to DW? I invested in CS5 and I am looking forward to working with php and MySQL in conjunction with DW.

    Thank you in advance!

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Webzarus's Avatar
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    Must be something with the newer version of DW, I've been using DW since version 2.0 ( many years ago ), yes there are always people that speak negatively of every program out there.

    I quit using "Design view" about 6 years ago. The main reason being, the code the DW generates for the JavaScript add ins and such, is usually very bloated and can be confusing to troubleshoot. Most of the redundancy in their code is for compatibility, and it usually works ok, but no one can code one thing that is going to work with everything.

    A lot of people have always been against any kind of GUI based design. I don't have a problem with it, you just need to understand the drawbacks to it.

    I'm still using DW from before DW was bought out by adobe, but again, I've only used code view and from my understanding code view has not changed that much since.

    I personally the file management functions builtin, as well as the code highlighting. The templating functions on the other hand can be frustrating and confusing, even to some experienced coders.

    As with any program out there, you will find proponents and detractors of that program, but hey if you've got the money, and look at it as a learning tool as opposed to " the only program to ever use ", then you've made a good investment.

    Personally, you can learn a lot about the basics using DW if used correctly, but I would never recommend someone purchasing it to learn HTML and CSS, I have always recommend people to learn as much as they could about both BEFORE investing so much money. Let's face it, no matter how much money someone throws at learning something, there will always be some that get it and enjoy the learning process of it, and some that just don't get it, and give up and walk away because they really don't enjoy the challenges and the learning process. On the web, design and development is never ending learning.

  4. #3
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    Must be something with the newer version of DW, I've been using DW since version 2.0 ( many years ago ), yes there are always people that speak negatively of every program out there.
    I appreciate the time you have taken to respond in detail, thank you!
    I quit using "Design view" about 6 years ago. The main reason being, the code the DW generates for the JavaScript add ins and such, is usually very bloated and can be confusing to troubleshoot. Most of the redundancy in their code is for compatibility, and it usually works ok, but no one can code one thing that is going to work with everything.

    Does this mean I should throw in JavaScript on my “To Do” list as well? I have a basic understanding of
    languages but this is still foreign to me. Also, if you quite using design view is there any reason you do
    not you the split screen or is it just personal preference to work in code view?
    Personally, you can learn a lot about the basics using DW if used correctly, but I would never recommend someone purchasing it to learn HTML and CSS, I have always recommend people to learn as much as they could about both BEFORE investing so much money. Let's face it, no matter how much money someone throws at learning something, there will always be some that get it and enjoy the learning process of it, and some that just don't get it, and give up and walk away because they really don't enjoy the challenges and the learning process. On the web, design and development is never ending learning.
    I agree entirely, I like the challenge of never ending learning!

  5. #4
    Senior Member Webzarus's Avatar
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    JavaScript is a must for anything but basic web sites, build on that with Ajax and jquery to provide levels of functionality that a lot of people want. There's ae tone of jquery things already built, that can be used, bit you should have some basic understanding.

    On rare occasions do I used a split screen view, if I do it usually is with some applications I build years ago that have 5-10k lines of code, using split screen I can find the sections easier.

    Newer stuff, visible to the web, is usually less than 200-300 lines of code so no need for split view... I think it is just personal preference, but then again, I like DOS too ! Still use it daily for network stuff.

  6. #5
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    JavaScript is a must for anything but basic web sites, build on that with Ajax and jquery to provide levels of functionality that a lot of people want. There's ae tone of jquery things already built, that can be used, bit you should have some basic understanding.
    Good to know!Added to my "to do list"

    On rare occasions do I used a split screen view, if I do it usually is with some applications I build years ago that have 5-10k lines of code, using split screen I can find the sections easier.
    Wow! Never thought about how many lines of code it takes to write programs but it makes sense.

    Newer stuff, visible to the web, is usually less than 200-300 lines of code so no need for split view... I think it is just personal preference, but then again, I like DOS too ! Still use it daily for network stuff.
    DOS...the good, the bad, the ugly...hee hee

    Thanks again!

  7. #6
    Senior Member MHometchko's Avatar
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    5-10k lines can add up quite quickly for a small-medium sized project. I want to forewarn you that DW will not help you achieve the ability to create a 10k line website (unless you just throw a ton of tables together in Design view).

    Web design and development is very much code-centric. Being an interpreted language, there really are few benefits that DW has over Notepad++ (which is free and awesome). Syntax highlighting is great, and theres probably even more line operations and things you would find useful in Notepad++ over DW.

    I personally feel DW is much to convoluted to use but some people still like it I guess. If you insist on using it...take it more of a content-management program rather than a crutch with which you will learn to walk. Find tutorials, books, articles, and examples of HTML and CSS (stay away from HTML5 and CSS3 for the time being as there ARE compatibility issues and will be for some time). Once you have the basics down delve into some advanced CSS architecture and concepts like media queries.

    After the essentials move to JavaScript and learn the core fundamentals of event-driven scripting. I would mimic examples and try to learn what you can from them. Once comfortable, jump into jQuery. jQuery is nothing more than a JavaScript extension. It literally does nothing more than make it better. jQuery requires much less code, is faster to develop, and is more powerful in my opinion (really just because of ease-of-use though).

    That's it for front-end management and "development". Backend I'd try out ASP and PHP. Get an understanding for both as you'll surely use both in the future. Don't back down from a language just because it doesn't appeal to you for the time being. The more languages you learn the faster you get to the stage where you can just read code and even if its in a foreign language, understand and eventually, throw your code in there relatively quickly.

    AFTER THAT....if you really get into the backend stuff and enjoy the development aspects of the web...you'll definitely want to dip into a .NET framework language. I hate to do this but being new I'd suggest Visual Basic. I hate the language but it's good for the novice programmer (and this is true programming). If you REALLY like that I'd try C#. Then you can start learning the basics of OOP or Object Oriented Programming. Rather than taking events step by step, OOP tries to account for the multitude of events that may happen through creating objects. For instance a box and mario would be two objects in a video game. Mario can walk, jump, kill things, pick up things, etc. This would all be defined in his class.

    I feel like I started to ramble...and we've gone way past DW...but you mentioned that you were making a list so I felt I'd throw my two cents. At any rate good luck!

  8. #7
    WDF Staff AlphaMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda_Girl, post: 227993
    ...I was suprised to see that DW has a few critics out there. With each type of programming language, I gather that there are pro's and con's for each but specifically, what are the con's to DW? I invested in CS5 and I am looking forward to working with php and MySQL in conjunction with DW.
    Thank you in advance!
    Just to be clear - DW is not a language - it's a tool (like Notepad++ but terribly expensive) you can use to write code with, in almost any language you choose: HTML, PHP, javascript, XML, Actionscript, ASP.NET, ASP VB etc, etc.

    It does have some features that allow you to insert pre-formatted code snippets, but in my experience these are often bulky and hard to edit after the fact if you want to change them in any way.

    I do use DW as well as Notepad++, but as MHometchko says, mostly it's a tool I use to pinpoint specific places in the code that I need to work on.

    No software will teach you how to code properly - it can help you out once you know what you are doing, but you need to come to it with a good foundation of coding skills in order to use it to the best advantage.

    If you want to get a good grounding in how to use DW as software, the Classroom in a Book series from Adobe will cover all the basics and give you a decent place to start from.
    Good design should never say "Look at me!"
    It should say "Look at this." ~ David Craib


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