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  1. #1
    Junior Member
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    Hello guys I am new to the forums and also to web design. ( ? ` )?

    I want to create a site like wikipedia, where people can edit pages and stuff.
    Doesn't have to be as big as wikipedia.(?^?)?

    What would I need to learn?
    I am a newbie atm finishing my first book on HTML. But I am free 24/7 for at least a couple of years so any harsh suggestion on how hard will it be and what programming languages would I need would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks and I apologize for taking your time ?(?????)?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Webzarus's Avatar
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    No apologies needed... And actually a good question...

    You will need to know HTML, CSS and php to make a wiki ... ( they are actually pretty simple )...

    I'm he type of person that learns from example... I've downloaded prebuilt wiki's before and most of the logic behind how they operate is pretty simple...

    The easiest way to learn how to out it together would be to use one that is already working... Break it down into the different functions and to from there...

    Once you learn how to code HTML and CSS, the php for the wiki should be simple enough.

    Many decent hosting providers actually have at least 1 if not more wiki scripts setup so you can install them with just a couple of clicks of you mouse.

    From a development standpoint, you could load WAMP or LAMP on your local machine, install on of the prebuilt scripts ... Just so you can play with it.

  4. #3
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    Thanks a lot webzarus !!! ?*:.?. o(???)o .?.:*?

    I will work on PHP now . One last thing if you don't mind, what level of HTML/CSS + PHP do i need to move on creating(editing an existing) wiki site?

    Are beginners books good enough? Do you have some book names to see what kind of level I need?

    Thanks In advance . ?????

    this stuff hard to find online, that's why I ask ??????

  5. #4
    Senior Member Webzarus's Avatar
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    Not sure what you mean "beginner"... Knowing and understanding the basics...

    I don't use books ... Sorry... Try w3schools.com ... Good place to start..

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webzarus, post: 234246
    Try w3schools.com ... Good place to start..
    No, it's not. Look at http://www.w3fools.com for a list of all of the things w3schools has wrong. Let me put it this way - as a mod on PHPFreaks, I can tell who attempted to learn by going to w3schools. Those are the people I and the other staff tend to have to help the most.

    For legit HTML, CSS, and JavaScript information, go to https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/learn/ . For PHP, the best place to go is the PHP online manual (http://www.php.net/manual/en/).
    Moderator at PHPFreaks

  7. #6
    WDF Staff Wired's Avatar
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    Why not just use the same software that Wikipedia does? It's free after all.

    http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki
    Ronald Roe likes this.
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    Was another WDF member's post helpful? Click the like button below the post.

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  8. #7
    Senior Member Kayo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinM1, post: 234272
    No, it's not. Look at http://www.w3fools.com for a list of all of the things w3schools has wrong. Let me put it this way - as a mod on PHPFreaks, I can tell who attempted to learn by going to w3schools. Those are the people I and the other staff tend to have to help the most.

    For legit HTML, CSS, and JavaScript information, go to https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/learn/ . For PHP, the best place to go is the PHP online manual (http://www.php.net/manual/en/).
    Glad to see someone else is spreading the message. I use to point out how W3schools are bad, but I gave up after the 100th recommendation.

    I used HTMLdog.com for HTML and CSS. I still use the reference page all the time when I have a mind block. Too bad it's not updated with CSS3 information.

    As for javascript, I just kind of dived in and googled through StackOverflow pages when ever I got stuck. But that Mozilla link looks pretty good.

    As for PHP, I can't comment because I went for other server-side languages and frameworks.

  9. #8
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    Yeah, HTMLdog is good, too.

    For PHP, I started with one of Larry Ullman's books, then used PHPFreaks to help me fill in the blanks, and handle real code. Being able to see real code snippets and attempt to debug them was invaluable. I then went to Zandstra's awesome book on OOP in PHP, then the Gang of Four's book. I've since branched out to ASP.NET MVC and C# (which is a great language. LINQ, by itself, spoils me).

    ---

    One of the other problems with w3schools, aside from being generally inaccurate, is that it doesn't attempt to teach best practices. Now, admittedly, it's gotten a bit better, but it's still not good enough IMO. For example, it still implies that inline JavaScript is the way to go, when in reality unobtrusive JS is the norm. Things like that, which seem minor, but tend to blow up into "Why isn't my script working?" plague w3schools.

    Above all else, I wince every time someone suggests them because they're not affiliated with the W3C in any way. Their name is an intentional misdirection, aimed at making the uninformed (which, really, is who their site is designed to attract) believe that they're some sort of service provided by the W3C. Especially when they hand out certificates that don't actually have any real value.

    They're shady, and I'd rather that any self-respecting designer/developer not give them more clicks. There are more than enough quality resources on the web that deserve the traffic instead.
    Moderator at PHPFreaks

  10. #9
    Senior Member Webzarus's Avatar
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    Perhaps people might take your suggestions of a different resource ... If it was offered up as just that and not a reason to bash another site.

    The OP was asking for information and resources...

    You offered opinions and bashing on a personal level that had nothing to do with his request.

    Perhaps something like:

    "I like htmldog.com because they have really good information for beginners"

    OR

    "htmldog.com is the best resource I've found for learning HTML and other languages "...

    When you start bashing something YOU don't like ... And throwing around comments tht make you feel better, but add no value to the thread "... You lose the chance to offer a potential resource.

    Just sayin...

  11. #10
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    I feel it's my responsibility as a developer to not only provide others with good resources, but to steer them away from bad resources as well. I can only do that by explaining why a resource is bad. Objectively speaking, w3schools is a bad resource. I have not said anything in my messages above that is not factual:

    w3schools is not affiliated with the W3C*.
    w3schools offers meaningless certificates*.
    w3schools is littered with inaccurate information.
    w3schools teaches/reinforces bad practices.

    I fail to see where the controversy is with those statements. As far as my own, anecdotal experience, I figured it would be useful for the OP (or anyone) to read as I've had years of experience helping people online with PHP, MySQL, and JavaScript. I didn't say that people who go to w3schools tend to need more help than others because I was trying to be 'cute' or simply hyperbolic. In my experience, it's true more often than not.

    Keep in mind, I'm not trying to brag/boast when I say that. I'm merely trying to give a programmer's POV. I'm sure there are design sites that you'd steer others away from, too, and that you can tell when another learned bad habits from a bad site/tutorial. Same thing here, just from the other side of the aisle.

    Finally, as far as making myself feel better, that's projection on your part. I'm simply trying to steer a fresh newcomer away from a bad resource and the inevitable headaches and errors that will come with using it. I figure that if they can start out with quality information, they'll be ahead of the game.

    *Neither is a sin when taken individually. Taken together, it's shady. I feel uncomfortable with the idea of co-opting another entity's name, then offering certificates in each individual topic for $95 each, as though the certificates actually came from the co-opted entity. That would be like PHPFreaks offering up a PHP certificate for $95. IMO, it's a transparent ploy to capitalize on the ignorance of newcomers. I can't defend that kind of action, and I certainly wouldn't want to condone it by happily sending more beginners to the site.
    Moderator at PHPFreaks


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