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  1. #1
    Senior Member RDesignista's Avatar
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    Hi everyone,

    Twitter Bootstrap...
    Bones...
    Skeleton...
    Foundation...
    HTML5 Boilerplate...

    What exactly are these things?

    Ok, so actually, I have an idea of what these are, but I'm not sure, so I want to ask if anyone can verify or refute my assumptions for me? I learned to make websites from scratch and I still do, but I keep hearing about frameworks and I believe that they would save time.

    I think that these frameworks are basically presets or website foundations for web designers to work with, since the browser defaults aren't the prettiest. For example, I know that Skeleton will add a cool styling for <blockquote>, which when used without a foundation, is just italicized text. The same goes for <input> or <button> stylings, which look like poop by default. Frameworks save you time by already having them stylized to a certain level. A responsive framework would make things flexible with little or no input from your end.

    Sounds about right?

    -R

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Webzarus's Avatar
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    I think you've got the correct assumptions of what a framework is.

    I personally have not used any of the above mentioned as I guess you could say I have many of my own "frameworks" that I've developed over the years.

    I have 40+ different layouts that are just that, a basic layout with all the common stuff ( header, footer, navigation, etc ), as well as some JavaScript libraries and asp scripts already put together.

    All I really have to do is throw in some content and images and tweak the styling to suit my and clients needs.

    So in a sense but not officially they are my own frameworks... And since I wrote them, I know exactly what is required to make changes , etc.

    I guess I should probably start converting to php as eventually asp will go away and I'm not really ready to retire from this stuff... I've been doing much more network security and consulting lately, just haven't had time to do as much coding as I'd like.

  4. #3
    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
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    From a client-side point of view, what you've said is pretty much correct, as WZ said.

    Basically, a framework is a library (or set of them) designed to make coding easier. In the case of the examples you've provided, they're designed to make coding easier and design prettier. There are some frameworks, such as ASP.net, that are more or less strictly to make coding easier...in the case of .NET, some of the design issues and code actually go the other way (e.g. datagrids). Fortunately, there's so much stuff in ASP.net to learn and use that you're not really married to anything unless you choose to be.

    I'm in WZ's boat, atlhough probably a few years ahead of him. I have my own client-side and server-side frameworks for both ASP and ASP.net projects...I've been migrating to ASP.net slowly but surely since 2009, and there are a lot of things I've been able to do to extend VB.net in particular as a result. I'm at a point now where it's almost harder to work in ASP because I know how I'd do one thing in ASP.net that may require a component installation or some other trickery in classic ASP (e.g. just about anything to do with uploading and image manipulation.) I probably do about 60/40 .NET/ASP stuff now, and as anyone who knows me knows by now, I won't touch PHP unless I absolutely have to.
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  5. #4
    Senior Member Andrew Yurlov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGAME1264, post: 241710
    From a client-side point of view, what you've said is pretty much correct, as WZ said.

    Basically, a framework is a library (or set of them) designed to make coding easier. In the case of the examples you've provided, they're designed to make coding easier and design prettier. There are some frameworks, such as ASP.net, that are more or less strictly to make coding easier...in the case of .NET, some of the design issues and code actually go the other way (e.g. datagrids). Fortunately, there's so much stuff in ASP.net to learn and use that you're not really married to anything unless you choose to be.

    I'm in WZ's boat, atlhough probably a few years ahead of him. I have my own client-side and server-side frameworks for both ASP and ASP.net projects...I've been migrating to ASP.net slowly but surely since 2009, and there are a lot of things I've been able to do to extend VB.net in particular as a result. I'm at a point now where it's almost harder to work in ASP because I know how I'd do one thing in ASP.net that may require a component installation or some other trickery in classic ASP (e.g. just about anything to do with uploading and image manipulation.) I probably do about 60/40 .NET/ASP stuff now, and as anyone who knows me knows by now, I won't touch PHP unless I absolutely have to.
    Can you point me to useful frameworks. I want to learn them to but i never have the time to properly research them. So far i've heard that the MVC framework is a good one.
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  6. #5
    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
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    ASP.net is extremely useful in and of itself, but there's a steep learning curve.

    jQuery for client-side stuff.

    Those are pretty well the only two I ever use.
    If I've helped you out in any way, please pay it forward. My wife and I are walking for Autism Speaks. Please donate, and thanks.

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  7. #6
    Senior Member Andrew Yurlov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGAME1264, post: 241714
    ASP.net is extremely useful in and of itself, but there's a steep learning curve.

    jQuery for client-side stuff.

    Those are pretty well the only two I ever use.
    Well I don't know about ASP.net but I am currently learning jQuery. Have you heard anything about the MVC framework good or bad?
    Artificial intelligence is nothing compared to natural stupidity -Someone

    Design is a funny word. Some people think design means how it looks.
    But of course, if you dig deeper, itís really how it works.
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  8. #7
    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
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    Used it a bit, but didn't really study it before I used it. Didn't care for it much, but that may well be because I didn't give it a fair chance. So I'd say "no opinion".
    If I've helped you out in any way, please pay it forward. My wife and I are walking for Autism Speaks. Please donate, and thanks.

    If someone helped you out, be sure to "Like" their post and/or help them in kind. The "Like" link is on the bottom right of each post, beside the "Share" link.

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  9. #8
    Senior Member RDesignista's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webzarus, post: 241709
    I think you've got the correct assumptions of what a framework is.

    I personally have not used any of the above mentioned as I guess you could say I have many of my own "frameworks" that I've developed over the years.

    I have 40+ different layouts that are just that, a basic layout with all the common stuff ( header, footer, navigation, etc ), as well as some JavaScript libraries and asp scripts already put together.

    All I really have to do is throw in some content and images and tweak the styling to suit my and clients needs.

    So in a sense but not officially they are my own frameworks... And since I wrote them, I know exactly what is required to make changes , etc.

    I guess I should probably start converting to php as eventually asp will go away and I'm not really ready to retire from this stuff... I've been doing much more network security and consulting lately, just haven't had time to do as much coding as I'd like.
    That's terrific. I truly feel like there's a lot of value in working something from the ground up. Not only are you able to know exactly what code to change, but it also includes everything you think is necessary. I think in the future when I do more sites, I will start making personal frameworks as well. I'm not the most talented and not knowledgeable overall, but I do think I have a good grasp of how to make a site intuitive, navigate-able, and not distracting.

    I've actually been looking at Wordpress themes + frameworks for clients the past couple of weeks for clients. I just bought my first theme from Themeforest. Pretty, but when I saw more of it and what it had to offer from the client POV (admin area), I wanted to shoot myself. Pretty on the outside, but very lacking on the "inside." Ugh. Got so much customization to do.

    -R


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