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  1. #1
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    I'm working with a design team for my website and their project mgr is telling me that to create a website in WordPress takes more time than building it in HTML (claiming it's 'duplicating' work). He is charging more for it. Is it true that you have to create the site in HTML and convert it to WordPress? Or at least create it in some other format before WP? Is it true that it's a duplication of work?

    I am having SEO coded in as well (organic), does this coding make a difference?


    Any helpful hints or answers?
    THANK YOU

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  3. #2
    WDF Staff mlseim's Avatar
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    The idea of using WordPress, Joomla, Drupal, or any other CMS (content management system) is to allow the whole site to be integrated into one "system". WordPress becomes the 'backend' of your site, controlling the templates, plugins, and admin panel. When any of those systems are installed, you need to purchase or customize a "theme", which is what the website looks like, layout, graphics, colors, etc. The customization of a "theme" is what takes a long time, depending on how much needs to be customized.

    They're talking about a site done without a CMS system like those mentioned. So you create your own HTML/CSS pages. Now you have a problem though ... after you create all of your pages, who gets to update the content? Only the person that created the site can edit the pages. Unless that person created a way to allow others to edit the site. There you go ... now you have to program all of the admin portion, text editor, database, etc. The site creator needs to give others a way to edit the content. You need to be very experienced at PHP, MySQL, as well as HTML, CSS, JQuery, AJAX, javascripting.

    To get a professionally custom website done without WordPress, Joomla, Drupal or without using a static webpage editor like Dreamweaver will cost you thousands of dollars. There is not only the website design, but all of the backend development work for the programming.

    The answer to your question is really about what the company is, and what the website will be used for. Some companies only need one web page to display phone number, address, a brief paragraph. Others need a whole database system for inventory, sales, ecommerce, etc.

    Tell us what your company does, what their website will be used for, and what features are required for the website. The answer to that will determine which is cheaper and faster.


  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlseim, post: 249330
    The idea of using WordPress, Joomla, Drupal, or any other CMS (content management system) is to allow the whole site to be integrated into one "system". WordPress becomes the 'backend' of your site, controlling the templates, plugins, and admin panel. When any of those systems are installed, you need to purchase or customize a "theme", which is what the website looks like, layout, graphics, colors, etc. The customization of a "theme" is what takes a long time, depending on how much needs to be customized.

    They're talking about a site done without a CMS system like those mentioned. So you create your own HTML/CSS pages. Now you have a problem though ... after you create all of your pages, who gets to update the content? Only the person that created the site can edit the pages. Unless that person created a way to allow others to edit the site. There you go ... now you have to program all of the admin portion, text editor, database, etc. The site creator needs to give others a way to edit the content. You need to be very experienced at PHP, MySQL, as well as HTML, CSS, JQuery, AJAX, javascripting.

    To get a professionally custom website done without WordPress, Joomla, Drupal or without using a static webpage editor like Dreamweaver will cost you thousands of dollars. There is not only the website design, but all of the backend development work for the programming.

    The answer to your question is really about what the company is, and what the website will be used for. Some companies only need one web page to display phone number, address, a brief paragraph. Others need a whole database system for inventory, sales, ecommerce, etc.

    Tell us what your company does, what their website will be used for, and what features are required for the website. The answer to that will determine which is cheaper and faster.
    ________________________________________
    THank you for responding:
    There is no db behind the site. I just want a simple site, discussing that I flip homes and how I do it. I want to upload a newsletter/blog a couple times a month and I want to be able to add pictures and descriptions of what I am doing to a home I just purchased, then once it's sold, I want to remove it and/or replace it with the next project i have... typically it'll be before and after pictures. The site will only be about 8 pages (home, about us, blog, inventory, wholesalers, contact us, submit a property, 1more). Does the site need to be built in HTML then converted to WP? I feel overcharged.

  5. #4
    WDF Staff mlseim's Avatar
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    This is just my opinion. Others may disagree ...

    If it were me, I would do the whole thing using WordPress right from the start. You will search online for a WP theme that you like ... either a free one or one you pay for. There are thousands of themes. Some are geared toward real estate, others are more like blogs, and yet others don't look like a blog at all. WordPress is free. The theme may or may not be free. The site developer would need to do the customizing for your business requirements.

    The SEO thing is sort of a scam (again, my opinion). Your rankings will be based on your content and how relevant you are pertaining to your business. The problem is, your site will be among 10 million other sites relating to the same thing. Because your business is not unique, you will have to pay for advertising, locally in your area and online. You will be focusing primarily in one geographical area?

    You can pay someone hundreds of dollars for "High Rankings Guaranteed". They will do this by paying for ad placements and paying many people money to post links to your site wherever they can. Short-term, Google may place your new site higher up. Unless your site has great content and has stirred excitement among many people, your site rankings will drop off the map. So, save your money. Let WordPress do the generic SEO. You use your money to pay for advertising and promote your services in your geographical area.

    Do this:
    Google "How to flip houses"
    How many results do you get?
    What does your website have that would be better and more unique than the other 10 million sites?

    See what I mean?

    ----------------

    And as a good example of what I'm talking about ...

    I created a site 5 years ago. Plain HTML, no WordPress, no fancy JQuery, no attention paid to SEO (I didn't even know what that meant). I don't advertise, I don't pay for anything except my web hosting. But my site offers something that is very unique and a very narrow demographic. That reason alone, my site ranks top on Google for rather generic search terms:
    bubbletest
    bubble test sheet
    multiple choice test sheets

    This site is for teachers to create those "Bubble Test Sheets" used for standardized testing in schools. "Catpin Bubbletest Generator". There are not many sites that offer this, so I am able to keep top ranking without any effort at all. Google even gives my search hit "sub links". My site only gets 1000-1500 visits per day during the school season. I don't charge for it because I would starve anyhow. So I have a site that has few visitors, but gets top ranking. I would like to see an "SEO expert" explain to me how that happens.

    Now let's say my site is about "online tests". Doing a Google search for "online tests" brings up 500 million hits! If I created a website for online tests I would be totally off the map. I would have to advertise like crazy to get people to find my site.

    -----------------

    Here's my final advice.

    Create your own WordPress site, install a nice theme that you find online. Make your site look nice. Then "kill" with great content. Give people something about "flipping" that nobody else knows. Your website may always be on page 20 of Google's search results, but in your heart you'll know that maybe some people are benefiting from what you have to show. Advertise like crazy in your geographical area. Don't hire anyone for SEO. "to hell with SEO". Use your website as a tool for your clients and customers.

    whew ... I hope I don't get too "blasted" for this post, but I don't care.


  6. #5
    Senior Member Webzarus's Avatar
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    Actually, I think you pretty much hit it on the head.

    I don't know why you were so jumpy about posing what you did. For this situation, its probably the best advice over hiring a full time web person that knows what they are doing.

    As for the SEO stuff... Comparing WP to a static or semi-static site you're gonna end up with about the same results, content is king, and WP is pretty good about getting your content seen by search engines.

  7. #6
    WDF Staff AlphaMare's Avatar
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    WP also has the advantage of enabling you to add content on a regular basis - in the blog portion of the site, but also in the pages. Changing images, altering text updating in general, show the major Search Engines that the site is kept current and that can, over time, help in the SEO of the site.
    But as always, without good content you'll not go far -

    As for WP vz HTML - I actually charge less for a WP installation and customisation. I have a couple of good themes/frameworks I offer as a basis, then I can easily customize them by creating a child theme for that particular site - that way the site won't break when WP is updated. Because I have the basics to build on, it takes me far less time than typing out each page in HTML (I'm a crappy slow typist), so I can charge less.
    Good design should never say "Look at me!"
    It should say "Look at this." ~ David Craib


    http://digitalinsite.ca ~ my current site . . info@digitalinsite.ca ~ my email

    If you feel that someone's post helped you fix your problem, answered your question, or just made you feel better, feel free to "Like" their post. The "Like" link is at the bottom right of each post, along side the "reply" link. And if you are being helped here, try to help someone else - pass it on!

  8. #7
    WDF Staff mlseim's Avatar
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    And if you're comfortable telling us ... can you say what they want to charge you?


  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlseim, post: 249353
    And if you're comfortable telling us ... can you say what they want to charge you?
    On top of the 8 pages, add another $1500 for the CMS. They are a business, not an individual working out of their house, they have a proven track record..... I've done my research. Although I just don't understand that additional charge, no matter if it's $150, $1500, or $15000, I know wordpress is free so I don't understand that add'l charge because of the CMS.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Webzarus's Avatar
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    You're exactly right, and you have the right to question them. Sure their overhead is more than mine, but that's completely irrelevant. I don't charge anyone less because I don't pay for or sit in an office all day. But my margins are a lot better because of it. I have a team of developers that I sub contract work with, when I don't have time to do the work, but I check every thing that they do, and my client knows up front that I'm using a contractor and why. I also don't tack on a premium "just because" ... I rarely use my team, but when I do, they get paid what I negotiate, and my client pays the negotiated rate.

    I'm not going to get into faulting someone for overcharging ( my opinion ), for the install of a free package. Thy get what they get, because people are willing to pay it. If you don't want to pay it don't use them.

    Sadly, some people's idea of a "track record" is they have done 100 web sites for local business, I have a problem with "web site mills" in general, overall, what they lack in actual expertise, they make up for in generic BS, to baffle and confuse those that know even less about it than them ... The DIG JAM effect.

    Not saying the company you're dealing with is that way, but I know there are more of them out there than legitimate businesses that actually put it out there right the first time.

    As long as those guys are around, my client base will continue to grow.

  11. #10
    WDF Staff mlseim's Avatar
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    They want to create a custom website with their own CMS (content management system). They don't wish to use WordPress or any pre-made systems. And as you researched, which is good you did, they probably create spectacular sites. They would give you something unique that nobody else has. WordPress sites are ... well ... WordPress sites.

    Your issue now ... is it worth spending that much money on a website?

    Might it be a good idea to just start with a cheap WordPress site to see how much site traffic you might be getting? What if you make it and nobody comes? What if you have a really good flipping idea that makes you tons of money, but you don't want to post it or show other people your idea? Now what will your site have that would interest other people? How much valuable information are you willing to give away? Is it wise to show people what you're flipping? If I was looking for a place to ransack for copper, tools, building materials, would it be beneficial for me to get a look at what you're in the middle of flipping?

    I've never flipped houses so I don't know how much "incognito" is required. I personally wouldn't tip my hand, but maybe that's what "flippers" do? Do buyers need to know (or are you required) to tell them that the house they are purchasing was flipped?

    Now if you're a contractor, builder, remodeler, and you are advertising your business and services, that would be a whole different ballgame ... I would say you go for it and have them build your site.

    I think what they're asking is fair. I think you need to decide if you really need a website. If you do need a website, can you "test the waters" with something cheap to start with? What are you willing to 'give away' in the form of information?

    EDIT:
    And know this ...
    You can get a webhost account with your own domain name for about $50-$100 per year, depending on the webhost. WordPress is free, pre-made themes are free. You could hire someone to tweak a theme just for you ... test the waters so to speak. So for maybe $200-$300 you have a full working website. If it seems highly successful, you hire them for whatever they charge and you let your old site go away after one year. You still keep your domain name.



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