PHP Framework

[Caboose557]

Hi guys,

So what are your opinions on PHP frameworks, and if they are useful, which ones?

The functionality I'm looking for is some framework for creating users / handling the authentication, creation, deletion, etc..

I've done the database design, created the classes, made the CRUD for the classes to interact with the database. Been there. While it gives me tons of control and customization, it can introduce errors and bugs and takes time. Especially when developing a complicated site.

Is it worth investing the time to explore PHP framework options? (I've looked into Yii framework a bit, debated looking into Symphony..). From my understanding with Yii is that it will create the CRUD classes for your use from your database design. Is it easy to learn and worth utilizing for that consistancy and speed it gives you?

Thanks for your opinions.

[TheGAME1264]

DISCLAIMER: I'm a PHP hack. I hate it, but I can generally do what little I have to do with it.

Having said that, here's my take on frameworks; and from what I've seen of the things you said, you're a pretty smart guy, so you should appreciate this. Any framework...and it really doesn't matter which framework you pick, server-side, client-side, whatever....isn't the end. It's the beginning. If you're going to truly take advantage of the framework, you need to add to it and/or optimize it for your specific purposes.

Take ASP.net for example (this is what I use). I use ASP.net for most things I build now, but I don't use the framework as it is constructed. I've built a 300 KB DLL that I bring into every project that takes care of data retrieval and updating, image manipulation, feed retrieval, string manipulation, validation, connection to several different web services, and a whole lot of other stuff. This DLL file grows as I develop more things, but the beauty of this setup that I have is that, if I update the DLL and add a class or a sub to a class or a property or whatever I want to add, it's extremely easy for me to use that code across all the other projects that share the DLL. I go into Visual Web Developer Express Solution Explorer, browse to my BIN folder, find the DLL reference, update it, and I have any new stuff I just created. That's how you take full advantage of a framework...by extending it to your own evil purposes.

Now, can PHP do this? I know you can create include files, but that's not really the same thing. If you create an include file for Project 1, bring it over to Project 2, and add something cool to it, then Project 1 probably doesn't have it at all...unless you jury-rig your server setup or code to store it in a common repository or folder that 1 and 2 both have access to. Pain in the ***. There may be a better way, and I hope for the sake of all the PHP developers out there that there is...I just haven't seen it.

The other advantage to extending the framework is that you can apply your own security measures and tricks to the site to lock it down. It'll never be 100% secure, but if you can do it right, you'll generally discourage most hackers because the time they waste trying to hack your stuff will be time they spend trying to hack W*rdPr*ss blogs or PHP registration scripts or YaBB or old ASP CMSes or (insert generic site builder here).

I did mention only server-side frameworks, but there are benefits to client-side frameworks as well. Again, if you can extend say jQuery by adding certain things to make your life easier, you can bring those scripts to other projects and use them as well. Now, this approach has the same pitfall as the PHP approach...you're shuffling files around, copy/pasting, and not necessarily keeping things where you should. But it can work.

Maybe one day I'll figure out a server setup for that sort of thing myself. But that's a project for another day.

[Caboose557]

Thanks again for the detailed reply..

First of all, I've seen it here and other posts. What's up with the censoring of W*rdPr*ss? Is it pretty frowned upon in the web design world? (I've never used it for any project, have debated looking into it... but..).. Just don't want to give more traffic to it?

I think I will go your route with either my own custom design or maybe a little bit grabbed from a framework.. Just get some essentials like you mentioned with your DLL and make it cookie-cutter so it will work with most designs, then just come in and provide the customization for whatever I need it for.

By the way, is it worth taking on the beast that is ASP.net? One of my companies I will potentially work at in the future uses it heavily, in addition to PHP/jQuery (stuff I already know)... I've never had any experience with it but I've heard it's pretty packed full of features, but can be troublesome to take on and learn. Might be worth to go ahead and do a project with it to get the experience before I might take it on as a job. Opinions?

[TheGAME1264]

That's my opinion. I consider it one of the biggest blights ever unleashed upon the Internet. It's bloated, it's tough to customize, it's insecure, and it's just plain yuck.

You're right...ASP.net is an absolute beast. There's no other way to put it. It's complex, it's difficult to learn, there are a lot of things to know, and it takes years to master. But yes, it's absolutely worth it, especially if you know of a company that uses it heavily. I think I'm the only regular on here who uses it extensively, but having used it and PHP, my take is that .NET completely blows PHP out of the water. It's got more features, you can do things such as partial page caching with it (there's a standalone reason), it's easy to separate code from presentation, if you get a good code editor with Intellisense it'll cut down your development time substantially, and it's (IMHO) much easier to read. It's also what a lot of the loan / finance companies use, as well as some of the bigger e-commerce shops.

[bettis007]

I suppose wordpress is a great php option, i think i might misunderstood the question a bit.