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Thread: Suggestion for design

  1. #1
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    Suggestion for design

    Hello guys,

    I have a question. I am trying to find a better design for my website. My site is Global Campaign for the 4 Hour Work-day

    It is a campaign to reduce the work-day to 4 hours a day. the problem I am having is that it requires the visitors to read a long text explaining how this would work. And well, in order to understand it, you will have to read the whole text. Based on google analytics reports, I notice that, first, visitors only go to the main page and very few click on the other tabs, and second, they are not staying too long in my site. I am not sure how accurate is google analytics about this, but it says that average is 57 seconds. that is not long enough to read even the main page but I am sure visitors that go to the site and close it right away provide a 1 second entry that brings the average down so maybe that's why it is a low number and it is not a big issue, but I do see that 90% of visitors only go to the main page and don't go to the other tabs where there is important information as well (specifically the "benefits" and "organize" tabs.

    Do you guys have suggestions on how I can change the design to fix this pattern? Maybe I need to include all the information in the main page. How can I deal with long texts so I can make it more interesting and not so boring. If you read my website do you have that issue? is it boring to read all that text? I was trying to find examples of other sites similar to mine, like campaigns or things that require a long explanation but most of them were set up as blogs, which I find hard to navigate sometimes.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated. I am just starting to learn about building websites so some guidance form experienced users will be appreciated.

    Many thanks

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  3. #2
    WDF Staff mlseim's Avatar
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    I only got as far as the banner. Reading what was in the banner ended my visit.

    Maybe it's because many people (and myself included) know that a 4 hour workday is:

    1) Not efficient.
    2) Not effective.
    3) Requires too many employess.
    4) Will cost companies a gazillion dollars a year.

    I work for a large manufacturing corporation. We have machines, equipment, and expensive processes that MUST run 24 hours per day, 365 days a year. The plant NEVER closes, even during a storm or power outage, the plant goes on backup generators. We have 2300 Deg F. glass melters, 2000 Deg F. gas-fired kilns, and chemical manufacturing processes that cannot be interrupted.

    To have workers only appear for 4 hours requires them to get to the plant, park, get to their locker room, change clothes, get to their work area and begin work. That will happen 2 times more often each day. Meanwhile, the previous shift is doing the opposite. The actual manpower work time the plant would get would be about 3 hours from each employee. That's a horrible waste of time, human resources, and wasted energy from numerous workers transportation, and energy from showering 2000 employees twice as often per day! Can you imagine the amount of gas and emissions from the employee cars alone!

    The carbon footprint of our company would double!

    Our company deliberately hires too few employees and allows employees to work overtime (12 hours per day). They get paid a lot of money, and they remain in the plant, operating longer. This is a win-win situation for the employees and the company. It reduces company operating costs, even if they pay overtime.

    And yes, our production workers, maintenance people, and contractors are all Union Employees, working under a contract.

    So, in summary, your idea would work for maybe 10% of the U.S. companies (like white-collar office jobs), or people working from home.

    I think your idea is ridiculous.

    But to answer your question ... in my opinion people don't stay on your website because they don't agree with the first paragraph of your content.
    Last edited by mlseim; Feb 22nd, 2014 at 11:02 AM.
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  4. #3
    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlseim View Post
    I only got as far as the banner. Reading what was in the banner ended my visit.

    Maybe it's because many people (and myself included) know that a 4 hour workday is:

    1) Not efficient.
    2) Not effective.
    3) Requires too many employess.
    4) Will cost companies a gazillion dollars a year.

    I work for a large manufacturing corporation. We have machines, equipment, and expensive processes that MUST run 24 hours per day, 365 days a year. The plant NEVER closes, even during a storm or power outage, the plant goes on backup generators. We have 2300 Deg F. glass melters, 2000 Deg F. gas-fired kilns, and chemical manufacturing processes that cannot be interrupted.

    To have workers only appear for 4 hours requires them to get to the plant, park, get to their locker room, change clothes, get to their work area and begin work. That will happen 2 times more often each day. Meanwhile, the previous shift is doing the opposite. The actual manpower work time the plant would get would be about 3 hours from each employee. That's a horrible waste of time, human resources, and wasted energy from numerous workers transportation, and energy from showering 2000 employees twice as often per day! Can you imagine the amount of gas and emissions from the employee cars alone!

    The carbon footprint of our company would double!

    Our company deliberately hires too few employees and allows employees to work overtime (12 hours per day). They get paid a lot of money, and they remain in the plant, operating longer. This is a win-win situation for the employees and the company. It reduces company operating costs, even if they pay overtime.

    And yes, our production workers, maintenance people, and contractors are all Union Employees, working under a contract.

    So, in summary, your idea would work for maybe 10% of the U.S. companies (like white-collar office jobs), or people working from home.

    I think your idea is ridiculous.

    But to answer your question ... in my opinion people don't stay on your website because they don't agree with the first paragraph of your content.
    Just in case you think Max is alone in his opinion...he's not. This idea is absolutely ludicrous and based in the leftist anti-capitalist non-thinking book-bright street-stupid drivel that makes me wish that slapping anyone in the head for saying things this ridiculous are legal.

    I will only need to give you one example to demonstrate why this idea is utterly, utterly asinine. I could give several, probably hundreds or even thousands, but I'll give one because I only need to give one. This example will resonate with every parent out there, I'm sure.

    My example workplace: a hospital. Let's be even more specific...nurses in the maternity ward at a hospital. A woman goes into first-stage labor and she goes to the hospital. She arrives, she checks in, she visit the nurses, they check her out and record her stats and the baby's stats (how dilated she is, heartbeat, etc.) Then they tell her she's not fully dilated and ready for active labor (second stage labor) as of yet. They tell her to walk around for a couple of hours and then see if she's fully dilated. But during that process, the nurses' shift ends and then the new nurse has to read the previous notes from the previous nurse to get him / herself up to speed. That's an inefficiency during a process that is already stressful. Now, that's going to happen regardless, but having it happen every four hours will create a situation where the mother will undergo greater stress and there is an increased likelihood of infant health problems associated with maternal stress as a result.

    Picture that happening during active labor, or better yet during third stage labor (i.e. the delivery)...picture the OB-GYN changing, the nurses changing, any of the students involved changing, everything changing. Again, imagine how stressful that would be to a woman in that position and imagine what that could potentially do to the baby. Pretty silly, right?

    For good measure, let's also consider that women generally are in labor for a significantly longer period with their first child than they are with subsequent children. My wife, for example, was in labor (three stages) for 64 hours and 29 minutes with our daughter. Using your wonderful 4 hour workday logic, that's 16 different shift switches. Explain to me how your wonderful idea helps my wife, and any other woman who ever wanted to have a kid in the hospital, or if that's not good enough for you picture a heart attack sufferer or a car accident victim or anyone else requiring emergency treatment in a similar position, and explain how six shift switches a day helps them.

    Like I said, that's one example and it's the only one I need. There are many other examples, however. Max gave you a second. It's an inefficient, brutally bad, anti-capitalist idea that ironically is more inhumane than the problem it's attempting to solve. There are no layout tricks in the world that will solve bad content issues, and this is a bad content issue.
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    I have a hunch that the OP is not of the U.S. The OP is in a country with mass public transportation. I can't tell if the OP is French (located in France) or where this is originating from.

    They have no understanding of how workers in the U.S. drive themselves to work (one employee for each car). The U.S. has suburban areas that are specifically designed for the automobile. There is no public transportation in most cases. There is 1 automobile for every American (man, woman, child). The amount of extra cars on the road and the carbon footprint of workers coming and going every 4 hours would be astronomical.

    Their 4-hour workday might function in Paris, where everyone is on strike most of time anyhow, and they have good public transportation.

    So I really think the OP is thinking too far outside the box.
    Last edited by mlseim; Feb 24th, 2014 at 12:44 PM.


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    Why is it that we are giving him nothing but ridicule for his campaign? I understand content is important but maybe your not in the target audience? Or better yet i can see he has a comment section below on his site to discuss the actual campaign as thats what I'm assuming it is for?

    I completely agree with both of you on how illogical a 4hr work day would be, but both of your comments have no help on the general question he has asked. We should be discussing his overall design.. Not his beliefs or your disbeliefs of what a work day should consist of.

    I do not know anything relevant about Wordpress to help you, other than id look into buying a theme if you do not know how to create one yourself


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    Senior Member Ronald Roe's Avatar
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    I was holding my tongue on this one. The only thing I have to add is that France tried something similar with the 30-hour work week. It set their economy way back. I imagine this being a movement run by stoners who want to spend the other half of the work day getting high while getting the same pay.
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    Senior Member Ronald Roe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlseim View Post
    I can't tell if the OP is French (located in France) or where this is originating from.
    That makes my comment even better. A French movement to further expand a policy that failed in France. At least Obamacare is taking failed ideas from other countries...
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  9. #8
    WDF Staff mlseim's Avatar
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    I did answer his question:

    But to answer your question ... in my opinion people don't stay on your website because they don't agree with the first paragraph of your content.
    There is nothing wrong with his website (HTML/CSS, layout, design). It's perfectly fine. I really think people click-out for the reason I posted. That was my answer to his question about why people click-out quickly.

    I can honestly say that I did not read past the "fold" of his website. I'm one of the 57 second visitors.

    He probably doesn't like my answer, so I backed it up with some actual facts and reasons why I think my answer is correct. And I followed it up by the possibility that his content is probably not directed at the right demographics.
    Last edited by mlseim; Feb 24th, 2014 at 01:16 PM.
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    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapr_Arts View Post
    Why is it that we are giving him nothing but ridicule for his campaign? I understand content is important but maybe your not in the target audience? Or better yet i can see he has a comment section below on his site to discuss the actual campaign as thats what I'm assuming it is for?

    I completely agree with both of you on how illogical a 4hr work day would be, but both of your comments have no help on the general question he has asked. We should be discussing his overall design.. Not his beliefs or your disbeliefs of what a work day should consist of.
    Because we are in the target market. Anyone who works is in his target market. Anyone who owns a business is in his target market. Anyone who receives benefits from another person's workplace is in his target market. We all are.

    We actually are helping him by pointing something out that most people miss about web design...design isn't just the layout or the logo or the way items are arranged on the page. It's also about the message that the page itself delivers, and without a message that makes sense, the design isn't going to convert no matter what the person working on the website does. This guy could come up with the greatest layout of all time and it won't make a bit of difference because the content itself is so fundamentally flawed that it won't get people to join the cause.

    Let me use another example, and this is a real-world, real-life example of the point I'm making above. Before I do this, however, I'm going to warn you...you will probably be offended, and if you are Jewish you will definitely be offended. But your moral outrage is the point I'm trying to make.

    So if you look at this site, look at it understanding that this isn't my viewpoint, but I'm using it as an academic example only. I seriously can't stress that enough. Not my point of view. It's a study guide, and nothing more.

    Nationalist Party of Canada

    This is the home page for the Neo-Nazi Nationalist Party of Canada. The leader of this party, Don Andrews, is running for mayor of the city of Toronto this year (yes, that means he's running against crackhead drunk extraordinaire Rob Ford). Let's say Don or someone in the party asked us what we would do to the site so that 1) he'd end up with more people joining the party and / or 2) get enough people to vote for this guy to become Toronto's next mayor. I'd suggest to you that most of us wouldn't answer him because his viewpoint and his ideals are so bizarre and ridiculous that he'll never be able to garner enough votes to become the mayor nor will he attract new followers of his ideals, especially since Toronto has a large Jewish population.

    Now, a 4-hour workday certainly isn't as ridiculous as a neo-Nazi trying to run for the mayor of a major metropolitan city and thinking he'll get voted in, and I'm not suggesting it is. But it's in that sphere of ideas that are silly and sufficiently lacking in rational construction that they fit the bill of "no amount of good design will fix flawed content".
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  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGAME1264 View Post
    Because we are in the target market. Anyone who works is in his target market. Anyone who owns a business is in his target market. Anyone who receives benefits from another person's workplace is in his target market. We all are.

    We actually are helping him by pointing something out that most people miss about web design...design isn't just the layout or the logo or the way items are arranged on the page. It's also about the message that the page itself delivers, and without a message that makes sense, the design isn't going to convert no matter what the person working on the website does. This guy could come up with the greatest layout of all time and it won't make a bit of difference because the content itself is so fundamentally flawed that it won't get people to join the cause.

    Let me use another example, and this is a real-world, real-life example of the point I'm making above. Before I do this, however, I'm going to warn you...you will probably be offended, and if you are Jewish you will definitely be offended. But your moral outrage is the point I'm trying to make.

    So if you look at this site, look at it understanding that this isn't my viewpoint, but I'm using it as an academic example only. I seriously can't stress that enough. Not my point of view. It's a study guide, and nothing more.

    Nationalist Party of Canada

    This is the home page for the Neo-Nazi Nationalist Party of Canada. The leader of this party, Don Andrews, is running for mayor of the city of Toronto this year (yes, that means he's running against crackhead drunk extraordinaire Rob Ford). Let's say Don or someone in the party asked us what we would do to the site so that 1) he'd end up with more people joining the party and / or 2) get enough people to vote for this guy to become Toronto's next mayor. I'd suggest to you that most of us wouldn't answer him because his viewpoint and his ideals are so bizarre and ridiculous that he'll never be able to garner enough votes to become the mayor nor will he attract new followers of his ideals, especially since Toronto has a large Jewish population.

    Now, a 4-hour workday certainly isn't as ridiculous as a neo-Nazi trying to run for the mayor of a major metropolitan city and thinking he'll get voted in, and I'm not suggesting it is. But it's in that sphere of ideas that are silly and sufficiently lacking in rational construction that they fit the bill of "no amount of good design will fix flawed content".
    I understand that, but i am trying to look at it from an unbiased view.

    Heres how i am looking at it, say he wasn't the owner of the site, but just the designer/developer. He has been hired to design this site whether he believed in what it says is beside the point.

    Or for you for that matter, say he was asking to hire you to do the site? Would u turn it down because you do not agree with the content? If not how would YOU design the site?

    My whole view relies on this, if he were to ask me to design the site, i would do it! Regardless of if i agree, because we can both agree that his money is no different.


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