Register

If this is your first visit, please click the Sign Up now button to begin the process of creating your account so you can begin posting on our forums! The Sign Up process will only take up about a minute of two of your time.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 31
Like Tree20Likes

Thread: A $10K Website Proposal - Have you succeeded in charging $10K?

  1. #11
    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Not from USA
    Posts
    14,480
    Member #
    425
    Liked
    2784 times
    I was hoping someone besides me would say what Stu and Andrew have said...although I was hoping for a little more detail and dissection as well. I guess we don't always get what we want. Next time, you guys. Next time.

    But...since I'm the one who raised the initial suspicion, I guess I'm the one that has to follow up. Okay. No problem. I'll go into detail, and I'll dissect. First, let's start with this:

    Incidentally, I give away lots of free advice and help to the WordPress community based on my experiences and what I've learnt and yes we also have a premium business accelerator program which over 900 WordPress consultants have been through.

    The upshot of this is that the quality of our incoming leads is now much higher because I am seen as someone who teaches others, so it actually helps attract new business.
    Specifically, let's start with the free advice. There's nothing wrong with giving free advice...when the free advice doesn't potentially lead people down a bad path. You are the "victim" of such bad free advice yourself, and it gives an experienced developer the ability to spot that you don't know what you're doing and that you're in turn passing on bad advice to others as a result.

    There is a line of code that you've used on a couple of sites that most people would miss completely; I suspect that would include most of the people in your target market. However, this single, seemingly innocuous line of code is sufficient for an experienced, knowledgeable developer to spot someone who lacks knowledge.

    The line of code (with preceding comment line) is below. I got it from the CSS file of the first site that I checked at random (http://jessicawatson.com.au/stylesheets/style.css]click here to see the CSS file...Troy was nice enough to digitally sign it for us).
    Code:
    /* Reset */
    a, abbr, acronym, address, area, b, bdo, big, blockquote, body, button, caption, cite,
    code, col, colgroup, dd, del, dfn, div, dl, dt, em, fieldset, form, h1, h2, h3, h4,
    h5, h6, hr, html, i, images, ins, kbd, label, legend, li, map, object, ol, p, param, pre,
    q, samp, small, span, strong, sub, sup, table, tbody, td, textarea, tfoot, th, thead,
    tr, tt, ul, var {margin:0;padding:0;vertical-align:baseline}
    For those who haven't seen it before, this is a variant of the CSS Reset first popularized by Eric Meyer several years back. The various incarnations of it have contained a design flaw that isn't immediately obvious, so I've prepared a jsFiddle to demonstrate it.

    https://jsfiddle.net/bo00ve8m/2/

    Most experienced developers have known about the flaw in the CSS Reset for years now and either have their own variant of it that works around this particular issue or refuse to use it completely. Either is acceptable; using the CSS Reset indicates lack of knowledge.Now that we've established your lack of WP knowledge, let's move on, Troy.
    First off let me be very clear that I do not stretch the truth in anyway. Anyone with a public internet profile and long term sustainable business cannot afford to stretch the truth - it's bad for business.


    @thegame1264 - not sure what I did to upset you so much but happy to help clear things up.
    That would be true if your long-term business model was predicated on mutually beneficial transactions and didn't target newcomers to the industry, and by extension a group of people that could be suggestible. You get them while they're new, you convince them that you're right, and you've got cult followers for life. You could pretty much do anything short of running out into the streets of Melbourne with a hatchet and bashing people's skulls in and your fanatics will still support you...and even if you did run out into the streets of Melbourne with a hatchet and bashed people's skulls in, they might still follow you.

    Let ME be clear (said Barack Obama)...I'm not upset with you. Your zombie follower dropped the affiliate link without thinking. Your business model is horrible, but I'm not upset with you personally.
    The ONLY factor that determines whether or not a client will invest $10K in a website is whether or not they are capable of getting a return on that investment. And if you're an accounting firm charging $20K+ per year for ONE client's taxation needs, them it's a no-brainer.
    That's a factor. That's not the factor. It depends on the client's business model and the goals of the site. For example, a not-for-profit might spend $10K on a site for the sole purpose of being able to say "we've invested over $10,000 in a site to give you the tools to get a job or get you off the street or to feed you or whatever our goals are." Government agencies do this repeatedly.Intranet sites are another example. They don't generate revenue. They simply provide tools that make life easier for clients, if built properly...this applies to both for-profit and not-for-profit sites.

    Regardless of what the site is or what the goals are, the transaction needs to be mutually beneficial...otherwise, someone is getting screwed over. If one side benefits more than the other and both sides are fully aware of the transaction they're about to undertake...so be it. That's organic. This isn't the case here.

    The technology, design, theme, plugins and other bits and pieces are not what determines the value of a website.
    I'm not sure why you're bringing this up. No one ever said or implied that it did. Value is relative.

    To summarize all of this (or "TL;DR"): you're not an expert, Troy. You're not a guru. If you can get $10,000 a day from someone for consulting and that company finds value in it equal to or greater than the $10,000, I would be very surprised. And if you got $10,000 a day from someone for consulting, you certainly wouldn't be selling the technique for $19.95 a month or whatever it is that you charge to people who could potentially take that revenue/income stream away from you.

    Putting a bunch of links down to things you may or may not be involved with...and I suspect you were involved with at least some of them...doesn't establish anything. They're links to things you were involved in. From a conceptual point of view, they're simple sites; they're basically WordPress brochures.
    Last edited by TheGAME1264; Jan 19th, 2016 at 08:54 AM.
    Andrew Yurlov likes this.
    If I've helped you out in any way, please pay it forward. My wife and I are walking for Autism Speaks. Please donate, and thanks.

    If someone helped you out, be sure to "Like" their post and/or help them in kind. The "Like" link is on the bottom right of each post, beside the "Share" link.

    My stuff (well, some of it): My bowling alley site | Canadian Postal Code Info (beta)

  2.  

  3. #12
    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Not from USA
    Posts
    14,480
    Member #
    425
    Liked
    2784 times
    Quote Originally Posted by sixfootjames View Post
    I am one of Troy's students and let me tell you, I GLADLY pay the money he asks every month. The biggest missing element for me was not the lack of WordPress knowledge, I have plenty of that! What was grossly missing was the business of WordPress. I was scraping through literally every month and his courses have helped me change the way I think.

    I had no systems or processes and the way I was thinking about business was all wrong. At the same time, from the very beginning, we were asked to really understand Why we do what we do. Just that nugget...just the small mind altering changes in the way I think about my business is enough for me to continue with WP Elevation.

    To top it off, not only has he offered insane amounts of value but the community that now bounce off one another is a SUPER awesome bunch. People completely open up and show how they run their business through webinars they have started among one another.

    And every Wednesday, I get to Skype with my accountability partner who pushes me forward making sure that what I have learned I am implementing.

    I could never be more excited about where I am in my business as I am right now. Not only that, the new revenue has pushed me to launch two internal projects that I know is going to help South Africa in a big way.

    In order for me to make profound change in this lifetime, I will leverage off all the greats out there so thank you GAME1264, I will most certainly sign up to your list of gurus too.

    I have 3 clients in the last year that have paid me more than $10,000 for a WordPress website and that is thanks not to Troy Dean, but my willingness to change the way I think and that is what Troy's done for me.

    Just yesterday, my first recurring revenue client signed up to my monthly maintenance plan, thanks to WP Elevation and they were super impressed by how professionally I had changed my image. So much so that she called me and said she wants me to up HER game to look as professional. Right there is the value I added.

    To gratefulness!
    Here's my entire list of Guru Sites I Subscribe To:








    Did you get it all? And is there any particular reason you're using an IP associated with a web host for your first post? It's almost as if you're trying to hide or mask something.
    If I've helped you out in any way, please pay it forward. My wife and I are walking for Autism Speaks. Please donate, and thanks.

    If someone helped you out, be sure to "Like" their post and/or help them in kind. The "Like" link is on the bottom right of each post, beside the "Share" link.

    My stuff (well, some of it): My bowling alley site | Canadian Postal Code Info (beta)

  4. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    2
    Member #
    53073
    Liked
    1 times
    Hey RolfDrake, I just wanted to give you some quick insight as I'm not sure if anyone has really answered your question yet.

    How much a website costs depends on the business needs and how the website will deliver them.

    It's not about what features are included or what CMS you are using.

    Let's say the client has a website and they are getting 10 leads per month and each lead is worth $1,000 to them. That's $10,000 per month currently. The business owner wants more than that, so starts finding someone to help him get a new website.

    Most people think - great, I'll make a new website for you, it will be awesome! It will have heaps of new features, look amazing and be way better than your last website.

    But what the business owner REALLY wants is more leads. How they THINK they will get it is with a new website.

    So when they ask for a new website, what they really want is to achieve some kind of business need. It's up to you to ask the right questions to figure that out. And it's up to you to know how much leads are worth to them. I haven't had a client knock me back from this question. Sure they are surprised, but they answer and then it helps me put together a better proposal.

    OK so now you know what needs the business has, it's time to price it. There are many ways to do this and Chris Lema is probably the best person to answer any questions you have about pricing.

    I'll see if I can give some quick insight though.

    In the example, the client is getting 10 leads for $10,000/month in total.

    If you are confident that you can double the leads generated from the website then that would net the client and additional $10,000/month, or $120,000/year. Let's say the lifetime of this new website generating this level of leads is just 2 years, so that's $240,000 of ADDITIONAL leads in total.

    That's a lot of extra cash from your work!

    How much is that worth to the client?

    How much would you pay for $240,000 in 2 years?

    A lot more than $10,000 I'm sure. I know I would.

    It really is about ROI.

    If you're doing development and you're trading time for money, it can be really draining.

    If you want to learn more about this, read up on "value based pricing", there's heaps of good stuff about it.

    In a really quick example 2, let's say someone wants you to build them a website. You go down the path of asking them what kind of goals and business needs they have and they say "I just want a simple website to display X".

    This is a brochure site and almost impossible to do value based pricing on.

    If the person who wants the website doesn't see much $ value in it, then they are not going to pay much for it.

    If the value of the pain of not having the website is not worth $10,000 then you're not going to get $10,000 for building the website.

    Phew, I hope that helps you a bit!

    I have been in a situation where I was not charging enough, working all through holidays, working late, getting burnt out and just feeling like a failure in my business and it's because I didn't understand this stuff. I'm still learning about it, but I'm taking active steps to improve it and get more business skills, not just dev/design skills.

    Never stop learning and stay in the game if you want to make a business out your craft.

    Cheers
    AlphaMare likes this.

  5. #14
    Senior Member Vapr_Arts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,923
    Member #
    37412
    Liked
    544 times
    Its funny that the link Game posted to an identical post on a different site both seem to have gone the same. You spew your Troy Dean babble and people told you how crazy you are and then Troy comes in with a comment that seems like a cut n paste job as well.

    I know very little about what Troy Dean does/is/suggests, I tend to just follow common sense. A quick google of his name brings up a very unconvincing website, that loads slow, looks like a WP theme with stock photography and SEO copy. Thats going to forever be my first impression of the man now. If he were as good as he says he is, this is unacceptable and lazy. If its not his site I am even more concerned. I wouldn't let my name be up there like that.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #15
    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Not from USA
    Posts
    14,480
    Member #
    425
    Liked
    2784 times
    It looks like a theme, Vapr_Arts? You understand what Simon, Rolf, and James all apparently failed to...that there is no substance to anything that the Gurus typically say.

    Let's take what Simon just said. Again, it all depends on your target market. Troy's target demo is low-hanging fruit...newcomers and business/designer wannabes who throw around buzzphrases like "value-based pricing" and "ROI" coupled with generalist and ridiculously optimistic projections of lead value and volume that don't apply to most businesses or models and a complete lack of understanding of the businesses that they're targeting in turn.

    Let's use one of Troy's examples as an example...there are a few of these that would apply, but one in particular stands out.

    Vaada | Victorian Alcohol & Drug Association

    As their About page indicates, they're a "peak organisation"...which means they're a trade organization/lobby group on behalf of alcohol and drug service agencies. One could reasonably conclude they're a not-for-profit, which generally devalues "leads" as the leads don't have an ROI in the conventional sense, but let's assume they're a for-profit. Let's look around the site and find the contact form, the custom quote form, the purchase of a product or service that would somehow generate that $1000 lead. They don't even ask for new members anywhere. There's just a generic contact form. In other words...there's no apparent way in which this site, or a few others Troy lists, could generate that kind of an ROI.

    This is fairly typical Guru logic. Usually they cop out when they're asked to back up their claims or provide an argument of obfuscation and intimidation designed to put the questioner on the defensive. I'll at least give Troy credit for listing his sites and putting them up for scrutiny...most of the Gurus don't even do that much. However, as we see, they fail a fairly simple scrutiny test. I won't go down the Chris Lema road because...to be honest, I've talked about this quite a bit and I would greatly prefer if someone besides me would say what I'm saying.

    In other words, we have a group of people who pay lip service to mutually beneficial transactions without the foggiest idea what the concept of a mutually beneficial transaction entails.
    If I've helped you out in any way, please pay it forward. My wife and I are walking for Autism Speaks. Please donate, and thanks.

    If someone helped you out, be sure to "Like" their post and/or help them in kind. The "Like" link is on the bottom right of each post, beside the "Share" link.

    My stuff (well, some of it): My bowling alley site | Canadian Postal Code Info (beta)

  7. #16
    Senior Member Andrew Yurlov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    1,305
    Member #
    27566
    Liked
    181 times
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGAME1264 View Post
    I was hoping someone besides me would say what Stu and Andrew have said...although I was hoping for a little more detail and dissection as well. I guess we don't always get what we want. Next time, you guys. Next time.
    You are a lot better with words and explanations so I figured you would do a much better job at it which you totally did.
    Artificial intelligence is nothing compared to natural stupidity -Someone

    Design is a funny word. Some people think design means how it looks.
    But of course, if you dig deeper, itís really how it works.
    -Steve Jobs



  8. #17
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    2
    Member #
    53073
    Liked
    1 times
    lol at ROI and value-based pricing called buzzwords.

    ROI is so 2009.

  9. #18
    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Not from USA
    Posts
    14,480
    Member #
    425
    Liked
    2784 times
    Quote Originally Posted by simonkelly View Post
    lol at ROI and value-based pricing called buzzwords.

    ROI is so 2009.
    You may want to reread your first post before you tell us that something is "2009".

    How much would you pay for $240,000 in 2 years?

    A lot more than $10,000 I'm sure. I know I would.

    It really is about ROI.
    Fireproofgfx likes this.
    If I've helped you out in any way, please pay it forward. My wife and I are walking for Autism Speaks. Please donate, and thanks.

    If someone helped you out, be sure to "Like" their post and/or help them in kind. The "Like" link is on the bottom right of each post, beside the "Share" link.

    My stuff (well, some of it): My bowling alley site | Canadian Postal Code Info (beta)

  10. #19
    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Not from USA
    Posts
    14,480
    Member #
    425
    Liked
    2784 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Yurlov View Post
    You are a lot better with words and explanations so I figured you would do a much better job at it which you totally did.
    That's because I make sure to speak out whenever possible against things like this. Sometimes I take a few shots along the way, but the more I comment the greater my ability to respond to what amounts to emotional arguments and arguments that lack reason.

    PRACTICE, son. We talkin' 'bout...PRACTICE. Not a game...not a game...PRACTICE.

    If I've helped you out in any way, please pay it forward. My wife and I are walking for Autism Speaks. Please donate, and thanks.

    If someone helped you out, be sure to "Like" their post and/or help them in kind. The "Like" link is on the bottom right of each post, beside the "Share" link.

    My stuff (well, some of it): My bowling alley site | Canadian Postal Code Info (beta)

  11. #20
    Senior Member Andrew Yurlov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    1,305
    Member #
    27566
    Liked
    181 times
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGAME1264 View Post

    PRACTICE, son. We talkin' 'bout...PRACTICE. Not a game...not a game...PRACTICE.

    Lmao from now on i'm going to read everything you write in his voice. Thanks for that.
    TheGAME1264 likes this.
    Artificial intelligence is nothing compared to natural stupidity -Someone

    Design is a funny word. Some people think design means how it looks.
    But of course, if you dig deeper, itís really how it works.
    -Steve Jobs




Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Remove Ads

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Tags for this Thread

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:29 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3
Copyright © 2022 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Skin By: PurevB.com