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  1. #1
    Senior Member krystof's Avatar
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    I am trying to publish a few super-simple all-purpose SEO-friendly & table-free CSS templates.

    I am not trying to sell anything or to make "design" templates. I am trying to make 1-2 basic "page layout templates" for beginners (including myself) to make a standard, cliche, functional web site. And which ideally, allows for "design" elements to be added later.

    I am a CSS beginner myself and do not aspire to be a serious web designer. Here is my attitude toward web design:

    --Make your websites search-friendly, user-friendly, accessible, and basically presentable.
    --Then if and when appropriate, hire a professional web designer for $50-$500 (depending on your budget) to make a slick custom design. And which does not compromise the original standards, listed above.

    I am building several sites. So I want to make a simple "all-purpose" template for myself and anyone who cares to use it. Here is the goal:

    (logo any size)(<h1> vertical-centered OR wrapping)
    <links> (Main text OR <h1> overflow if wrapping)
    <links> (Main text)
    <links> (Main text)
    <links> (Main text)
    <links> (Main text)

    You can click here to see my "attempt" at this (still using some tables though): "SEO-friendly & table-free CSS templates"


    As far as I can determine, there are 3 possible solutions to this simple template:

    1. Two tables. A top table which vertically-centers the logo and the <h1> with respect to each other--and thus neatly separates them from the rest of the page. And then a second table with:

    First TD: (main content) + (links margin with "float:left")
    Second TD: right links margin--that comes up to the bottom edge of the top table--and that collapses to 0 width when it is not needed and there is nothing in the SSI include.
    (This is what I have done so far.)

    2. OR using CSS-only: "Float left" the top logo and then "absolute position" the left links margin, just below the top logo. (Using EM sizing to allow flexibility for each browser.) This would be ideal IF it can be made simple and reliable. (Hopefully without needing the numerous "hacks & workarounds" that I have read about in tutorials, for "the latest IE bugs" or "second style sheets for NN4.xx" etc.)
    (This what I am going trying to do right now. I am not even sure whether it can be done. (?) Any advice or suggestions appreciated!)

    3. OR use the CSS "behave as a table" command. I.e., just keep the same format as tables--but CSS. If all else fails, maybe this is the way to go?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member planetgman's Avatar
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    There are a few issues here. One, and most importantly, you are probably insulting your audience, considering there are a LOT of serious web designers on this forum. Secondly, most of are reputable and come to this site to help fellow designers.
    Your post contains nothing really of your questions that are in the subject line. Meaning you ask for help for SEO, CSS and tutorials and then your email doesn't ask for help........it just sounds kinda preachy.
    The other thing, based on your comment:
    "do not aspire to be a serious web designer. Here is my attitude toward web design"........then you make examples, that you later say "Well I am exaggerating but you get the idea...
    Why make an example if you are just going to exaggerate your opinion?
    I'm certainly not insulted by your email, just perplexed.
    As a professional designer with over 10 years experience, I do think you are trying to fit designers into what you think they are.
    If you are looking to stand out and offer lower cost solutions and then base them on what you think they should be, then that is what you should say.
    Most professional designers do none of the things used in your "opinion" and most do the absolute most important thing you can do if you are designer:
    LISTEN TO THE CUSTOMER. I don't know many fellow designers that put their egos first or try to stereotype the entire industry into their finished product.
    True, a lot of customers don't know what they want or don't know what works/looks good........that is where a designer comes in and offers their expertise and gives them solutions that will work (based on what they want to accomplish).
    Like I said, if you don't aspire to be a serious web designer, why come onto a forum that has them and then tell them what you "think" they do wrong?
    Plus, if you are looking to design a template, how does that really fit a customers needs........just because it has the things on it you think are supposed to be a cure all?
    I wish all people that take on design work, good luck and you are no exception. I hope you find an audience and target market that fits your needs.
    Good luck......
    GMan

  4. #3
    Senior Member krystof's Avatar
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    Very sorry to have offended, Gman. I will try to edit my post to remove offending passages.

    All I was trying to say was: I am not trying to be a "designer." For the best site design, I prefer to hire people who are really good at it. I suggest for most people to do the same. I thought professional designers would like this message and I am not sure what offended you.

    But thank you very much for alerting me that some of my "opinions" were unclear or off-topic! I will re-edit my message pronto.

  5. #4
    Senior Member planetgman's Avatar
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    Like I said, I wasn't offended, just perplexed.
    And please, don't get me wrong. You could do very well if you are planning on putting templates together.
    I'm not a big fan of templates, because I do think it takes away from the personalization most customers want, but then again, a lot of customers don't know what they want until you show them.
    On top of that, there are a ton of "template sites" that just don't have a decent product.......I think if you are planning on putting something together, then you are in the right forum for advice. Plus, I think if you take a look at other template sites then you can see what works and what doesn't......and then improve upon it.
    I think your re-edit of your comments are more inline with inquiring about the best way to proceed and I do wish you luck.....
    GMan

  6. #5
    Senior Member Jack000's Avatar
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    www.oswd.org

    got a few templates there myself

  7. #6
    Senior Member krystof's Avatar
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    :classic: Aha, now I see the misunderstanding. My mistake.

    Clarification: I am not trying to sell anything or to make "design" templates. I am trying to make 1-2 basic "page layout templates" for beginners (including myself) to make a standard, cliche, functional web site. And which ideally, allows for "design" elements to be added later.

    Jack has some beautiful template designs. But that is just not what I aspire to do.

    I agree with Gman. No matter how nice a "design template" is--somehow, it's just more personal to custom build each site--ideally, with a profesional web designer.

    I am trying to make this process easier. My idea is just so that anyone with the ingenuity can activate his basic concept. This can be used by itself if necessary--or it can be used to provide a professional designer with an initial mock-up.

    Of course, not everyone has this level of initiative. But for those who do, it can save expense and prevent misunderstandings with the designer.

    Well, that is my goal anyway. Thank you Jack and Gman for helping to clarify this.


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