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  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3
    Member #
    11662
    Hi all,

    I've just recently joined, and have a question concerning iframes and 'regular' frames. I use frames for my website, as I've found that it makes navigation a lot easier. I'm currently experimenting with iframes for the first time. If this is in the wrong forum, I apologise.

    My site, after the index page, currently looks like this: http://www.hanfic.com/catalyst/default.htm. It is basically the 'hub' to the rest of the site. I would like it to look like this - http://www.hanfic.com/catalyst/newsite - but also with a 'regular' frame to the right of the page along with the iframe, for navigation purposes.

    My dilemma, however, is that when I try to add the second frame, the iframe shifts to the bottom of the page, below the background graphic. I'm using Microsoft Word 2002 and NetObjects TopPage to maintain my site, as I can't afford to buy more 'sophisticated' design programs (eg Fireworks).

    Is there some way I can add in the second frame where I want it to be using HTML? I don't understand CSS - it confuses the hell out of me, and confusion does not sit well with me (as with most people). A solution to my dilemma will be greatly appreciated. Thank you

  2.  

  3. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    435
    Member #
    8983
    i would highly suggest useing css don't worry about useing a sophisticated program they are unnecessary and don't use iframes they are limited to ie only
    Thee Pyro Wolf

  4. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Australia
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    Member #
    11662
    Quote Originally Posted by pyrodragon
    i would highly suggest useing css don't worry about useing a sophisticated program they are unnecessary and don't use iframes they are limited to ie only
    I would have to disagree with the last part, as I use Mozilla Firefox and have had absolutely no problems viewing sites that use iframes - about a quarter of the sites I visit use iframes, and I can view and navigate them perfectly. And as I previously said, I don't understand CSS, though I have tried to. I'd like to be able to redesign my site without having to resort to using it. But thanks for your response anyway.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Rince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    183
    Member #
    8318
    don't use iframes they are limited to ie only
    pyrodragon has been reading some old web pages and still things that non IE browsers means Netscape 4.7.x. It used to be true. The iframe is a MS invention. But all modern browsers can work with iframes.

    Having said that. Don't use frames at all!

    Here's why not. Mainly it's cause they are confusing. Frames confuse search engine spiders. They find it difficult to find all the content and navigate through your frames. So the site never gets properly indexed.

    Frames confuse the web browsers who found your page through search engines. They usually end up in one of the framed pages rather than the frameset page. So all the navigation links and other design elements are missing. Result, they hit back and try the next site that doesn't confuse them.

    Frames confuse bookmarkers (IE users favorites.) you try to bookmark the page you are on, instead you bookmark the frameset so you can't get straight back to the page your wanted and have to re-navigate the site again.

    Frames confuse people sharing link. "Here's a great page I found go to :aste url here form location bar::". The link points to the frameset not to the actual page of content that the user wanted to point to.

    Frames confuse the designer. They get the targets all mixed up and link to the wrong frame, to a blank frame or to a frame that just does not exist.

    If you can't cope with css, then use talbles. But just don't use frames or iframes unless you can come up with a really really good reason. Case in point - how many big name sites use frames. Google? Yahoo? MSN? AOL? Amazon? ebay? - well none of them. Only microsoft.com does and it depends on large amounts of javascript to counter ballance the problems listed above.

    CSS isn't that hard really. Honest. Read my breif technical explanation
    http://www.splodgy.com/modules/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=css
    and feel free to ask any questions. The objective should be to avoid confusion by learning.

  6. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3
    Member #
    11662
    The main reason I use frames is for navigation purposes - one of my subsites alone has over three hundred pages, with more to come. I was taught (and have read in magazines) that no page should take more than two or three clicks to access. Hence my rationale for using frames - to make my site navigation easier for my users. I've been using frames for over three years, and (not to brag) have won awards for my site design - not to mention that I haven't yet received one complaint about the way I've laid out my site. As the saying goes, if it's not broken, then don't fix it. And no offence, but sites that don't use frames annoy the hell out of me, except if it's a search engine or a message board.

    I had a look at your link, and I'm sorry, but I still don't get it. It's all Greek to me, as they say. I don't understand tables either. And I barely understand HTML as it is, hence my reliance on the programs I use for maintenance of my site.

    Looks like it's back to Google...


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