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  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Member #
    Hey All!!
    This is my first post. There seems to be a lot of good information here. I was wondering... What are the advantages/disadvantages of using tables/frames/layers from a design point of view and from a coding point of view? When designing pages, I usually use tables, but I'm getting the idea that using layers might be a better idea because of how I like to do a lot of visual layering effects (duh!) and it might be easier to to layer pages instead of slicing them up in photoshop. As far as frames go I like the fact of having things like a 'set' nav bar. The only thing that I hate about frames is that they tend to look messy sometimes and they are hard to optimize for search engines. I guess you can accomplish the set navbar thing with layers though. Is there a way to load a seperate page into a layer, or table? Wow, reading back on this I guess I have quite a bit of questions!! Thanks in advance for any insight!
    Christopher Carvache
    Web Developer / SEO
    Northeast Web Design


  3. #2
    Senior Member karinne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Aylmer QC Canada
    Member #
    8 times
    Ok ... let's start

    Tables: They aren't for layout - Why tables for layout is stupid - they are for tabular data. Plus ... using them for layout makes for a lot of unnessary bloated code.

    Frames: Not very search-engine-friendly.

    Layers: I assume you mean a CSS-layout here?! This is obviously the way to go. Seperating content from presentation is everything the W3 is trying to get people to do.

    As for putting your menu or footer that's in every page in a seperate page is to look into SSI (Server Side Includes) or PHP includes or ASP includes.

    I stronly suggest you read the books in my sig ... start with Zeldman's book (Designing with Web Standards). It will help you understand everything about all this stuff you just asked

    [a web design portfolio - Currently NOT AVAILABLE for work | web design | Re-coding | PSD-to-HTML]
    I'm also on: virb - facebook - twitter - flickr -

  4. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Perth, Australia
    Member #
    Tables: Used to be the only way to structure a page, until CSS came along. I don`t think it`s TOO evil though, to have a table for some parts of your site, and style everything with CSS, if it makes your life easier for cross-browser support. I prefer to layout everything in CSS though (except forms, which can be a pain to layout in CSS).

    Frames: I really hate frames. Not because they`re hugely bad (if you ignore the search-engine unfriendliness of them), but because there is no need for them since CSS. You can still have your header (and even footer, or anything), stay EXACTLY where you want, without scrolling, with CSS (FIXED).

    Is there a way to load a seperate page into a layer, or table?
    Not sure what you mean. You can ovveride the main css file by adding different css to a page (if that`s what you mean?).

  5. #4
    Senior Member Shani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Member #
    <story>A few months ago, I interviewed for a web design position. The interviewer gave me a written test to see if I knew what I was doing and had the same working style as the other people there. The last page was a faux html page and he said, mark errors. I circled a big area and wrote down, "Nested tables are so 1998!"

    My boss still laughs when I say that.

    Frames... bad. On top of search engine problems, frames do not let users BOOKMARK, and they oftentimes force people to use the BACK button. IFrames are not as bad, but there is no reason to use either of these when you can use CSS.

    As far as I know, you cannot load a page into a page using CSS. There are other ways to do it, but I have never found a good reason to load another page into my page. It makes me want to ask you what you're doing...

    CSS is a powerful layout tool. A lot of WSYWIGS refer to layers, but we call them divs. They are the blocks of the layout. You can set their colors, positions, backgrounds etc. Good stuff!

    I have an eye for detail like you'd never believe.

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