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  • 1 Post By Webzarus

Thread: Good Morning All

  1. #1
    Junior Member ocean7's Avatar
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    Good Morning All

    I am new to this forum and web design so I will be reaching out to all you pros for your expertise. I am presently handling a site I put together for my wife using IPage and the Drag & Drop software. Being new I feel safe using Drag & Drop, but I see that they came out with Word Press and it seems that this is very popular with web site builders. I watched a few videos and on one hand it does look very interesting, but on the other a little intimidating. My wife was speaking with a friend of hers and she asked my wife if I could possibly put together a site for her new business (Catering) and she wants to pay me to do this. This is what I have been wanting to do for a long time, but I am so nervous because I do not want to let her down.
    I have a couple questions being that it will be my first paid client what would be a fare fee for building/maintenance? Also, do I add the Hosting fee and will I pay for this upfront myself? Sorry, seems to be more than two questions. Would it be best for me to stay with Drag & Drop or should I venture out and take a shot with Word Press. I will stop here because I can see I am getting carried away.
    Thank you for any help. I know I will be here for a long time to come. Just found out that a friend of my wifes' friend asked if I could do a site for her. Now I'm nervous. TY!

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Webzarus's Avatar
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    #1... if you're only comfortable with drag and drop design... you're done.

    don't even attempt or think about doing design for anyone for pay... why ? because, if you are being paid there will be expectations of "i would like it to do this, or this"... and you won't have a clue, and your abilities are not only limited by what the "drag and drop editor" will allow you to do, but you have no other experience of capabilities of making it happen...

    then what ? so you ignore my advice, give her a quote, press on... hit a wall... because she points you to a site and says "i want something like this"... you don't know how to do it... you dig through the forums... but your caveat in getting assistance is.... "you have to tell me how to do this using this drag and drop program".... and you're not going to get any help...

    so then what... you have to walk away...

    if you think WP is intimidating ( one of the more simpler CMS systems out there )... then the rest of this is a no go...

    there are numerous companies that have built their business solely on the WP framework, but they have taken the time to learn what they can do with it, they have learned to build "custom themes", etc... they learned how to customize the inner workings...

    Probably not what you want to hear, but web design is more than pretty pictures, or just making pages work together and if you're not willing to invest time in learning the "basics" it probably best that you not embarrass yourself by taking on paying clients and not being able to actually produce what they want/need because you don't know the basics.

    As designers, sometimes we have to guide our clients in the direction we know is best for them because what they are asking for would not be right for their business or site.... we don't do that because we can't do it... we have years of experience in knowing what works and what doesn't work, we know from years of trial and error with other clients that some things will add no benefit or could actually hurt the clients site ( their reputation ).

  4. #3
    Unpaid WDF Intern TheGAME1264's Avatar
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    What WZ said for the most part. If web design and development were "drag and drop" easy, your wife's friend could do it herself and she wouldn't be asking you to do it in the first place.

    It's not. Never has been, never will be, never should be. A "simple" site for a "small business" becomes "can you add this feature in? I saw it on Site X" or "how do I get people to fill out a custom quote form?" or "I want people to prebook me for catering events, can we put a calendar up so people know when I'm available"? At that point, you're not only past drag and drop, you're past W*rdPr*ss too. Side note on WP: even though it's one of the simpler CMSes as WZ said, is also one of the bigger pieces of garbage out there, and you'll have to spend an inordinate amount of time dealing with bots, upgrading servers, upgrading W*rdPr*ss installations, and all sorts of other things that you don't need to do if you just built the site properly in the first place. If all you're used to is drag and drop, you're not ready for this yet.

    Another thing: if you have to ask what a fair price is to charge for anything, you're not ready to sell it yet either.
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  5. #4
    Junior Member ocean7's Avatar
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    I do so much appreciate your honesty, but this is something I really want to try and go forward with. I have been working in the warehouse field for some 30 yrs and I would like to get into something a little less heavy duty. I know there is much I do not know, but I am willing to learn and if need be also go through some trial and error. Trial and error would be with me only. When it comes to a paying client I would make sure they receive what they paid for. I have done some HTML in the past and I think with a little study I could handle Word Press. I know I am up there in years (57) but I believe I can bring this together with focus and determination. I do have a basic site I put together for my wife if you would care to take a look. Thank you so much for responding so quickly.
    Tom

  6. #5
    Senior Member Webzarus's Avatar
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    Age doesn't mean a thing ( says the 53 year old guy ), here's the deal... before you take in a paying client at least know and understand the basics...

    W3Schools Online Web Tutorials , don't worry about HTML5 yet, it can be intimidating and not all browsers support all the stuff you can do with it... so focus on HTML or XHTML ( XHTML will teach you the basic structure and keep you focused on standards )... if you can do XHTML, then when you go to incorporate and HTML5 into what you're already doing, it won't be as much of a stretch.

    Then learn some basic php ( not going to even mention the others, there are more , but with limited time, focus on what you will get the most from support and responses from if you run into an issue ).... use PHP for "includes" so basic site structure and site management will be much easier...

    There is a basic "LOGIC" to web design that you should understand before taking on clients... but if you forge ahead with what you currently know, make sure your client knows you are "learning" so their expectations won't be so high... sure you're gonna have to be willing to do your work cheap, but why shouldn't you, you're getting paid to learn and you can't expect to make a decent living at anything that you are not the "guy for answers".... sure you can probably get answers to your questions, but I revert back to my original post... if your questions are geared towards a particular editor as opposed to a standard language, you're gonna run into issues and limitations of the editor.

    Hope all this makes sense, I hate to see someone set them self up for failure because they don't understand that this industry ( and being successful in it ), is all about learning ( constant learning )... in the 15+ years I've been doing it, there's still a lot I don't know and will never know because it's constantly evolving and changing... and what is neat and cool today is what will make a site crash and burn tomorrow....

  7. #6
    Junior Member ocean7's Avatar
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    Thank you so much for the information. If I share a link with you to a basic site I put together would you please give me your thoughts? Please do not be to rough? Would you be willing to check it out?

  8. #7
    WDF Staff AlphaMare's Avatar
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    Post your site on the ratings and reviews forum - that's where links from new members are allowed, and we'll be glad to give you a fair and honest opinion about the site, what is good about it, what is bad, and how to work at making it better.
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    It should say "Look at this." ~ David Craib


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