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  1. #1
    Junior Member brandon112200's Avatar
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    So I am developing my own site. I don't really have any background in this, other than messing around. I am hoping to get some feedback, in regard to color, layout, menu design, page content etc.

    Thanks for helping me out, and I hope in turn I can help others!

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  3. #2
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    You used tables to lay out the site.

    Use CSS divs instead

  4. #3
    Junior Member brandon112200's Avatar
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    Hi shovenose, may I ask what the added benefits will be?
    Is it difficult to transition what I have to a CSS div rather than tables?

  5. #4
    Senior Member DanExcell's Avatar
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    I plan on keeping a watchful eye on this thread...
    I have gotten into the habit of not judging other designers/developers work, but this is my Microsoft Meandering time so I'm MEANDERING...

    Oh, almost forgot: spammers are gender-less parasites...

  6. #5
    Junior Member brandon112200's Avatar
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    Hi Dan, may I ask why? Kind of making me feel akward like something is wrong.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Webzarus's Avatar
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    The site is actually not bad, I personally wouldn't use orange links with the white background but that might just be my eyes... Other than the orange links, not too shabby for someone new to this.

    The reason a lot of people throw out "you should not use tables".

    1. Tables are meant for "tabular data" not site layout...
    2. When you have content inside <table> tags, all the content ... Images, code, etc has to load into memory ( all of it ), before the browser can DISPLAY anything... ( this will slow down your site loading drastically )

    If you use CSS and DIVs to layout your site, the page loads as it is read by the browser making it appear to load much faster.

    Table based design is the "old style" way of doing it...it won't hurt your search rankings, but if someone follows a link to it, and they don't have the best connection, it will take a while to load.

    When I opened it on my phone just now it took a good 7-10 seconds to load... A lot of people are not going to wait that long for a page to load... They just hit the back button and move on.

    Converting from tables to CSS based design can be tricky for someone with little or no knowledge ... But it is doable...

    If you google CSS layout examples, you should be able to find a CSS layout similar to your current layout... Read up on CSS and how to use it... Play with some of the layouts and you could possibly convert the site...

  8. #7
    Senior Member DanExcell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brandon112200, post: 232562
    Hi Dan, may I ask why? Kind of making me feel akward like something is wrong.
    Absolutely nothing.
    I have gotten into the habit of not judging other designers/developers work, but this is my Microsoft Meandering time so I'm MEANDERING...

    Oh, almost forgot: spammers are gender-less parasites...

  9. #8
    Senior Member DanExcell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webzarus, post: 232564
    The site is actually not bad, I personally wouldn't use orange links with the white background but that might just be my eyes... Other than the orange links, not too shabby for someone new to this.

    The reason a lot of people throw out "you should not use tables".

    1. Tables are meant for "tabular data" not site layout...
    2. When you have content inside <table> tags, all the content ... Images, code, etc has to load into memory ( all of it ), before the browser can DISPLAY anything... ( this will slow down your site loading drastically )

    If you use CSS and DIVs to layout your site, the page loads as it is read by the browser making it appear to load much faster.

    Table based design is the "old style" way of doing it...it won't hurt your search rankings, but if someone follows a link to it, and they don't have the best connection, it will take a while to load.

    When I opened it on my phone just now it took a good 7-10 seconds to load... A lot of people are not going to wait that long for a page to load... They just hit the back button and move on.

    Converting from tables to CSS based design can be tricky for someone with little or no knowledge ... But it is doable...

    If you google CSS layout examples, you should be able to find a CSS layout similar to your current layout... Read up on CSS and how to use it... Play with some of the layouts and you could possibly convert the site...
    My over-zealot University instructor simply insisted that tables were very very bad. He did not offer any detail info and I never bothered to research, I just took his word for it.
    I have gotten into the habit of not judging other designers/developers work, but this is my Microsoft Meandering time so I'm MEANDERING...

    Oh, almost forgot: spammers are gender-less parasites...

  10. #9
    Senior Member Webzarus's Avatar
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    Tables aren't BAD, they were just never intended for design layout because of their need for everything inside the table to be in memory before it is shown on the screen.

    If your going to use tables for layout, there is a way to do that so the impact is minimal... Still visually noticeable... But it was a trick I learned many many moons ago...

    Do not put your entire page contents inside 1 huge table... Instead use 1 small table at the top to hold the header logo and information, create another table for the next section, preferably not really long... Perhaps to the fold at most... Another table for extra content... Then a footer table...

    When a visitor hits the page, even on a slow connection, they will at least be presented the header table within a couple of seconds, then the. Ext table loads, etc... Finally the footer table loads... But if it's below the fold, they never realize it took that long to load...

    This only works if you only have a couple of pages... And forget about loading external content... Ads and such just slow the site down that much more...

    Much easier to layout and design with CSS ( once you learn the basics )... Then your biggest challenge is being creative... Not to worry about how long the page takes to load.

  11. #10
    Junior Member brandon112200's Avatar
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    Granted I am using a CMS of sorts to construct the site. I have to modify the css though. I only used tables in a couple places. The site is mostly CSS, albeit I am sure it is wrong, sloppy, etc... I am a rhino in a pond, so forgive me.

    Thank you for the info about tables, I did not know that is how they load, so I will try to eliminate them as I go forward.


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