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Website Designing Tool

Discussion in 'General Web Design Discussion' started by Flexi Squeeze, Feb 7, 2012.

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    Ronald Roe Well-Known Member

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    Been curious about these for a while. How/why are you liking it?


    Ronald Roe, May 13, 2012
    #41
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    smoseley Administrator

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    It's good stuff. It allows heirarchical CSS structure and the addition of reusable variables and "mixins" (CSS functions), which reduces markup, and makes everything logically laid out and more manageable. An absolute necessity for larger sites.

    If you haven't been using a CSS framework, you don't know what you're missing. Compass is to CSS as PHP is to HTML rendering (allowing includes, functions, etc.). Do yourself a favor and try it out! :)


    smoseley, May 13, 2012
    #42
    Ronald Roe likes this.
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    smoseley Administrator

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    smoseley, May 14, 2012
    #43
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    DanExcell Active Member

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    [IMG]I hate the fact that I always end up on the side of defending WP, when this is not what the issue is truly about. The real debate is designer/developer versus programmer.
    (image courtesy of Six Revision). As descriptive as the image above seems to be, it's far from accurate. I enjoy both art and coding, but get real bored with them individually. I've use both PC and Mac, but lean more towards the PC.

    Programmers like to point out the faults of open source web apps because their perception of the web differs from that of a designer. Designers usually cringe inside when they see a programmers website that is poorly designed. What both parties fail to realize is the fact that if they work together, everyone wins. However, everyone seems to think that they can do the other persons job better to some degree. Even worse; a designer will not work with a programmer, because they can rely on an open source CMS, or a designers job is not as important as the programmer. At the end of the day, a full blown argument erupts and which ever side that has more to say, with more people on their side feels that they have won a meaningless debate.

    Well here are some facts we all need to evaluate; by far WP has more active websites on the web than any other CMS, or blog platform, and a designer/developer of WP themes has generated over $1mil in sales of WP themes. If this tool (WP) is so terrible, how and why would such accomplished programmers permit this to happen? Why haven't these programmer been able to redirect some of that profit to there coffer as oppose to just complaining about it? Maybe it's jealousy, maybe the claims are hollow and have no real basis.

    Look, I know WP, Joomla and several other CMS's are not perfect or even ideal, but you have to realize how you appear, when you are hating on something that is so widely used. Save your pitch, anger, distaste and loathing for the potential client. I am sure that fire in your belly will help you close the deal and bring one more person to your side of the debate. That is pure unadulterated progress, bit_hing and moaning isn't.


    DanExcell, May 25, 2012
    #44
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    TheGAME1264 The Displaced Web Redneck Moderator

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    To some extent, you're right, Dan. But just because something is widely used doesn't mean it's the appropriate tool for the job. A hammer is a widely used tool, but most people wouldn't use it to cut meat.

    The tools having limitations and issues are one thing. The tools having limitations and issues that pose security risks and generally make it harder to develop is something completely different. That has always been my issue with WP in particular...it's horribly insecure and to risk a client's business on something because it's "easier" is foolish at best. It's a terrible tool from a commercial point of view. This isn't jealousy or a hollow claim, either...Trend Micro, among others, has said the same thing.

    Good programmers recognize this and recognize the inevitability that others will realize the flaw in the movement and the problem will eventually correct itself. It's similar to offshore development...programmers "permitted it" to happen because there wasn't much choice and because sooner or later companies would switch back since the lack of overall output wasn't worth it.


    TheGAME1264, May 25, 2012
    #45
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    DanExcell Active Member

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    I specifically stated "WP, Joomla and several other CMS's are not perfect or even ideal"
    Furthermore, you can forget about security with most of these open source tools. Its play at your own risk once you commit. The designer/developer is responsible for that alone. You can find valid tutorials that will help you protect a WP or Joomla site, but they all come with a price and many of them are not really hacker proof. Not much really is if the hacker is really determined.

    The popularity of the tool only indicates how potential clients respond to it. WP is easy to use and once the developer is done, he or she can hand the keys over to the client and let them go. Custom jobs require a great deal of customization that will balloon the price to the upward of $10k to provide that same easy to use admin interface. Hey, a guy that wrote a book about WP and how to secure it got hacked not too long after the fact. WP is not an all purpose tool, it is convenient for novice small businesses that require a web presence.


    DanExcell, May 25, 2012
    #46
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    TheGAME1264 The Displaced Web Redneck Moderator

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    Yeah, I saw that. And again, most of what you said makes sense. I just find that most businesses end up at a point where they migrate from the tools in question to something custom...not in the upward of $10K usually, but that depends on the complexity of the job.


    TheGAME1264, May 25, 2012
    #47
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    DanExcell Active Member

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    Around here (NC) custom jobs start at $5000 and only goes up. Anything under, is most likely Joomla, WP and if a client is lucky they might, just might get a Drupal site.


    DanExcell, May 26, 2012
    #48
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    TheGAME1264 The Displaced Web Redneck Moderator

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    Wow...no wonder you're against custom work. Now, I can't say that every job I do is under that point...some of my clients have paid me tens of thousands of dollars. But that's over a period of several years and includes several different aspects (marketing, legal document filings, support on various levels, content creation, and things beyond custom programming.)

    I'm guessing what you're seeing is company pricing.


    TheGAME1264, May 26, 2012
    #49
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    DanExcell Active Member

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    I'm not against custom work, I have a great deal of respect for guys that roll their own CMS. They deserve the big checks. having a custom CMS of my own would make me really happy right now. I inherited a client that had an online store built with WP. I tried all that I could to get her to go with Magento after realizing how twisted her site was. This bubble head ignored me, and put me off because she was set on using WP. The shopping cart never worked. I blamed that one on my reputation for using WP. Someone that must of really disliked me recommended that psycho.


    DanExcell, May 26, 2012
    #50
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    smoseley Administrator

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    A little misplaced. WP was terribly insecure, but later versions are much improved. The problem with WP today is that it is the MS Windows of CMSes. If you're a hacker, you want to make a big impact, so you're gonna target the platform that will affect the most websites. That's why Wordpress is heavily targeted.

    Not saying WP is fort knox. It's still a crappy platform. But its security has come a long way. You can now safely hate it for other reasons. :)


    smoseley, May 26, 2012
    #51
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    smoseley Administrator

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    Love this infographic! I'm somewhere in between designer and developer. Style-wise, I'm definitely on the designer end, though sans-Mac.



    smoseley, May 26, 2012
    #52
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    DanExcell Active Member

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    Shocked! Thought you were a PC guy.


    DanExcell, May 26, 2012
    #53
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    smoseley Administrator

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    I am. "Sans" means "without".


    smoseley, May 26, 2012
    #54
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    DanExcell Active Member

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    My bad, should of known that since I grew up in a French speaking home


    DanExcell, May 27, 2012
    #55
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    TheGAME1264 The Displaced Web Redneck Moderator

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    I don't fit either category. I don't have an esoteric T-shirt, I wear baggy jeans because I have big and muscular thighs (36" relaxed fit with a 31" belt) to give you an idea of my leg strength, I have a Van Dyke with a mixture of stubble if I haven't shaved for a week that I've had since I turned 15, and I have no addictions.

    WTF AM I?


    TheGAME1264, May 27, 2012
    #56
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    DanExcell Active Member

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    It's a stereotype that some geeks like to follow to the letter. I have worked with so many of those types in the past. Fortunately for them the CEO of one particular company I worked for was also a rich prototype geek that encourage that behavior.


    DanExcell, May 27, 2012
    #57
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    smoseley Administrator

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    Yeah, I don't do t-shirts at all. I'm all about button-down shirts with vertical stripes, long sleeves rolled up, hanging untucked over my snug jeans, with loafers, a nice watch, and designer sunglasses. I call it my "creative director" look, lol.


    smoseley, May 27, 2012
    #58
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    TheGAME1264 The Displaced Web Redneck Moderator

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    I do them, but they're usually either plain or contain some sort of WWE reference.


    TheGAME1264, May 27, 2012
    #59
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    DanExcell Active Member

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    Even after one lone developer has sold over a million dollars in WP themes you can still say that?

    <WARNING: it is against the rules to insult others>


    DanExcell, May 27, 2012
    #60
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